Battle AI

[lekseus]

Battle AI in FoG was extremely bad.
Are there any improvements in this issue in Eternal Empire and Decline & Fall?

[stockwellpete]

No. But the whole system is being converted into a new code right now. Once that is done I am sure many of us will be asking for improvements in the AI which, as you say, is very poor at the moment. So probably nothing until after xmas with regards to this issue is my current understanding.

[the_iron_duke]

Like most computer strategy games (except for chess) the single-player AI isn't up to much. It's in multi-player that you'll find the real challenges. Give it a go - it's stable, reliable and fun.

[Rodia]

Hey, that's a bit harsh.

Sure I want better AI, but "extremely bad"?

Did you try Empire Total War?

[Adraeth]

Some years ago i was really involved in pbem++ (that is a wonderful system) and even in many beta testing online for many games.... but right now real life is charging me from everywhere ; for this reason i always play FOG Vs the AI and i can suggest you a simple way to have a real challenge against the AI opponent:

Let the AI take two turns instead of one, i will give you and example:

YOU make the 1st turn, you move, shoot and melee
AI makes her 1st turn "she" moves, shoots and melee
YOU make the 2nd turn you DON'T move, DON'T shoot and make ONLY compulsory melee
AI makes her 2nd turn .. thus moving, shooting and melee
YOU make the 3rd turn moving freely, shooting and so on.....
...repeat until the end

I always have challenging battles (i almost play 350 pts) and i win or lose depending on armies involved.

Another good "house rule" is... units OUT of command (with the "white hand") can only move 1 hex

have fun

---
(Edit)
here is a brief outcome of a battle vs AI using those mentioned house rules:
I played Early Syracusans Vs Early Carthaginians (Immortal fire armies) and i won just for 1 break point ... the battle was really tough and close

[lekseus]

Hey, that's a bit harsh.

Sure I want better AI, but "extremely bad"?

Did you try Empire Total War?

Yes I did. You shouldn't compare Empire and FoG. Total War games are much more complicated (I mean content). Why don't you compare FoG' AI with Panzer General AI (realeased in 1994 ) or witn Fantasy Wars?
And, by the way, you can try Darth mod for the Empire with stunning AI (Author tells its better than average human player).
Resume. It is not too much trouble to make good AI (especially in such small and simple game like FoG). I suppose current AI is good enough for the casual players. Are they target group of this game? That is a question.

Adraeth, thanks for the advice, but i don't like this way of playing.

[the_iron_duke]

It is not too much trouble to make good AI (especially in such small and simple game like FoG).

I don't agree with that. I've played a few computer strategy games over the years and I've never found one with good AI (with the exception of chess, as mentioned). Most try to bridge the gap with human-scripted events (such as so-and-so will happen on Turn x or when the player reaches a particular hex these units will attack) or they give bonuses to the computer player in unit strength and suchlike.

I think FoG with different maps and different army types would be quite a task to get the computer to read the situation and come up with a coherent strategy. They probably could improve the FoG AI somewhat but I still very much doubt it would come remotely close to a human player. I think FoG is very much a multi-player game and in that aspect it excels. Don't judge the game on the single-player experience because you're missing the point of the game.

Chess is the exception. I play on level 4 out of 10 difficulty against the computer. I think chess benefits from the small 8x8 grid, decades of AI work done on it by many, many designers, a small, unchanging rule set and being a clinical game design bereft of chance.

[stockwellpete]

Some simple things to improve the AI would include . . .

i) don't let it pick "poor" troops as it just leaves them by the camp
ii) don't let it pick heavy artillery - it is just a waste of points
iii) sort its leadership selections out - e.g. don't let it pick an "inspired" leader and two "field" commanders for a 300pt army!
iv) do not use "crowded" or "very crowded" maps for AI games - the AI gets confused
v) make AI support its skirmishers more - at the moment it just sends them out to be surrounded and killed

[Rodia]

I would like to face uber AI too, but only if my enemy commander is Caesar, Hannibal, Brasidas, etc.

In other words: I wish the profile entry for leaders in the editor (timid, cautious, average, bold...) worked.

But for fighting gauls and athenians on land you have to admit the AI is great! <-- very unfair for the gauls I know.

[ChrisH]

I tend to give the AI roughly twice as many points as me to make things a bit more challenging. Just set the army size in the DAG to say 650 points and only spend 350.

[Rodia]

I remember my first strategy videogame: The Ancient Art of War, by Broderbound. It was very basic, but it had a scenario editor and you could choose at the beginning what commander you will face in battle: Julius Caesar, Attila, Sun Tszu...

Probably it was only a gimmick, but something like that, competent AI - but with different profiles, properly done that would be awesome.

Maybe the uncertainty of what AI you're going to face would make for a better AI?

[TheGrayMouser]

Hey, that's a bit harsh.

Sure I want better AI, but "extremely bad"?

Did you try Empire Total War?

Yes I did. You shouldn't compare Empire and FoG. Total War games are much more complicated (I mean content). Why don't you compare FoG' AI with Panzer General AI (realeased in 1994 ) or witn Fantasy Wars?
And, by the way, you can try Darth mod for the Empire with stunning AI (Author tells its better than average human player).
Resume. It is not too much trouble to make good AI (especially in such small and simple game like FoG). I suppose current AI is good enough for the casual players. Are they target group of this game? That is a question.

Adraeth, thanks for the advice, but i don't like this way of playing.

Actually real time games have a MUCH easier time with AI coding than turn based. FOG is easy to learn but there are a lot of rules and thus decisions to make, that makes it that much harder to code an AI for. As for Panzer general , the AI wasnt great either but it had a lot less it had to think about: pure rock paper scissors logic, no zocs, no evades or evade setting, no anarchy etc etc. Now with that being said, there certainly room for some major improvements with FOG

[Igorputski]

Some very good AI games of the Ancients

1. Centurion Defender of Rome : If you beat this game on normal difficulty you have done well and if you can beat it at its highest difficulty I applaud you.

2. Spartan (by Slitherine before they made this kids crap AI for Field of Glory) on hardest and Impossible is one of the better AI's I've played. Try to find version 1.013 if you can that was their best version of Spartan before they dumbed even it down and then came out with Troy which was even dumber.

3. The new HPS series of Ancients has some decent AI much better than this AI by a long shot.

4. The Tin Soldiers series Alexander and Caesar has some very good challenging ai although it's more of a 3 to 1 advantage against you vs being top notch ai opponent but still challenging.

5. The old Great Battles series of Alexander, Hannibal and Caesar has a pretty decent AI as well. Graphics are pretty dated but if you can get by that you'll have a pretty good time vs the AI.

[lekseus]

Igorputski, thanks. I've plaed Teen soldiers: AI ain't bad, but bbattle mechanics is. Don't like HPS games, because of interface.
After some battles in FoG I can say: you guyes were right - Ai in this game ain't too bad. What is really bad - is random and some balance issues.
For example, I engage enemy skirmishers with my own and prevent them slip away. Then I atack those skirmishers with my heavy Inf. First and second regiments atack them with casualities about 1:2 in our favour. Skirmishers become Disrupted. After that third regiment of the same heavy Inf attack and casualities are 1:3 in enemy favour. Miracle!!!
There is, at least, one more annoying balance issue. In every strategic or tactics game when cavalry attacks infantry, that is equiped with long spears it (cavalry) suffers great losses. Even knights in gothic armour. Cavalry in FoG is wunderwaffe - it can charge spearmen in front attack and smash them. What is it: ignorance or some kinf of innovation?=)))