Noob's EAP List Advice Please

[LongHairedGerman]

Found a great deal on one of my favourite empires, ~100 sparabara/Immortals & archers and 30 mounted . So here's my tentative starter army:

1 FC, 1 TC
2 x 4 Persian/Median Cav - sup, arm, undr, bow/sword cav - 144
2 x 8 Immortals - sup, arm, dr, bow/L spr MF - 192
2 x 8 Persian Foot/Archers - avg, prot, undr, 1/2 L. Spr 1/2 bow, MF - 96
2 x 4 Other Light Horse Archers - avg, unpr, undr, bow, LH - 64
2 x 6 Medizing Greek Hoplites - avg, arm, undr Off Sp, HF - 108
Total: 689, 10 BG,

Any advice on using EAP (or playing the game in general) would be greatly appreciated. My main opponents will be Various flavours of Greek (classical, Alex & successors etc) and chariot age armies, and only one Roman republican2 army (srsly). I realize Persian foot can't take on hoplites, so I figure I'd use the 2 hoplite BG's as an anchor for my infantry line with the commander-led Immortals on either end to hopefully "hold the line" long enough for the foot & cav shooting to disrupt the enemy. If/when this happens the foot will hold the enemy in place while the cavalry charges the flanks/rear. Is this at all a realistic doctrine? Should I drop something (perhaps the LH) to free up points for more superior cavalry?

Despite being a noob I realize that beating the Greeks w/ Achaemenids is no small task... But I am not the most competitive player, and imho the Achaemenids/Parthians/Sassanids were strong contenders for coolest looking armies in all history. So anyways, advice please!

PS: I'm currently reading throught the tactical tips section of this forum and have already consulted madaxeman's page on this army.

[ravenflight]

1 FC, 1 TC
2 x 4 Persian/Median Cav - sup, arm, undr, bow/sword cav - 144
2 x 8 Immortals - sup, arm, dr, bow/L spr MF - 192
2 x 8 Persian Foot/Archers - avg, prot, undr, 1/2 L. Spr 1/2 bow, MF - 96
2 x 4 Other Light Horse Archers - avg, unpr, undr, bow, LH - 64
2 x 6 Medizing Greek Hoplites - avg, arm, undr Off Sp, HF - 108
Total: 689, 10 BG,

This advice is given from a V1 perspective:

2 generals are not enough. You will need at least 3 but preferably 4.
Offensive spear are pretty much useless in 6's unless armoured and/or superior.
Consider your FC as a sub-commander. Pro's - A C-in-C cannot outflank, so IF you wanted to outflank you would be at a reduced chance of success as you would need to use a TC. Con's - hardly anyone outflanks, and a FC sub-general cannot give you a +1 to initiative. Neutral - You possibly don't WANT Initiative, as you may want to move first, so you're already @ +1 due to cav, maybe a subbie FC will give you flexibility of being able to outflank at no increase to initiative.

The position of FC is purely up to you on the way you run your army.

[babyshark]

I second the advice on the number of generals: three or four are far more usual.

What point total are you designing your army for? 700 points (my guess, based on what you wrote) is an uncommon number. 800 (and sometimes 650 or 900) are more usual. The extra 100 points would come in very handy.

Marc

[kevinj]

Yes, more generals are definitely required, I tend to find 3 are sufficient for 650 point armies, 4 are needed for larger.

The EAP army tends to be either Hoplite based, in which case you're well advised to take the Medizing Hoplites as 2x8 or Missile/Manoeuvre based. If you can afford it, you can also take the 6 Lydian or Asiatic Greek hoplites from the main part of the list. The Egyptian Marines can also be useful in this variant, for 28 points you get a BG that can provide rear support to both your Medizing BGs. The Immortals and cavalry can operate on the ends of the line, the Persian archers need to be used with care as they are very hard to extract from any trouble they find themselves in.

The other variant is to maximise the manoeuvrability and firepower of the army. For this you can use the post 465 options, using the Persian archers as Light Foot which makes them much less vulnerable generally. Use your manoeuvrability to maximise the firepower on the softer parts of the enemy, while avoiding their nasty combat troops.

This of course is all related to V1, the Missile/Manoeuvre option in particular is likely to be heavily impacted by V2.

[philqw78]

More generals are definately NOT required. A number of competitions have been won in UK at 800 points and at least one a 650 with only 2 generals.

Start off with just 2, any more is then a bonus. Most of your fighting troops are superior so don't need one to fight with them.

[ravenflight]

More generals are definately NOT required. A number of competitions have been won in UK at 800 points and at least one a 650 with only 2 generals.

Possibly true... what armies though? Armies where 50% of the foot are undrilled?

[philqw78]

Possibly true... what armies though? Armies where 50% of the foot are undrilled?

Good point.

[Eques]

Lose the Medizing Hoplites. You can only use them in one specialist campaign scenario.

Go for a Classical Greek Army if you want Hoplites all over the place.

[grahambriggs]

I use the EAP extensively and have won tounaments with them, Most recently fighting successors and Republican Romans and winning. Unfortunately, only at 800pts.

The fundamental question in designing this army is do I want some frontal fighting power or do I want to win by manouvre?

Frontal fighting. My list for this is 4xTCs, all 22 hoplites, three deep, the Egypian marines as rear support. Then 2x8 Immortals right next to the hoplites facing some rough/broken terrain. The sparabara on the other side of the hoplites as a refused flank. Mounted on the wings. Lead with the immortals, with the rest of the foot en echelon. There's not much in period that can stop the immortals in terrain. The hoplites arrive and fix the enemy centre while the Immortals pile into the flank. The enemy will be charging towards the sprabara, so often a 'turn and move by the marins can bring them in on a juicy flank.

The downside is that this all needs an enemy that'll stand and fight. The hoplites manouvre poorly so can't catch a manouver army. Oh, and you can only have one BG of 'other horse archers'.

If you go down the manouvre route, you'll want the later version of the army where you can ditch the sparabara. My army for this is:

IC, FC, TC. You don't need 4 generals but the IC helps win initiavive to get an open table and the FC is worth the points for his 8MU reach in this army.
6, 6, 8 LF Av bow
8 Poor LF bow
3x4 sup und arm cav, sw, bow
2x2 elite, dr, arm cav Sw, bow
4 LH Bow, 4 LH bow LS
2x 8 Immortals, dr Arm, sup, LS, bow.

Everyone shoots, everyone moves. It takes a long time to work out how to use it right but it's very effective. Stretch the enemy out, be patient and then suddenly he'll be cursing his dice in one area.

[paullongmore]

Graham has played this army a long time and i second everything he said.

FYI here is the 479BC version I played in the last round of the Northern Doubles (900pt) with some deployment suggestions

4 TCs

1 x 4 medizing Greek javs LF poor
1 x 6 libyan javs LF poor
1 x 4 medizing Greek LH jls, LS, Av
1 x 4 saka LH bw, sw Av

LF in front of the where the greek spears are going to grab space for them to double in to, LH edge of table

1 x 8 Medizing Greek off spears, Arm, undrilled, Av
1 x 8 Medizing Greek off spears, Arm, undrilled, Av
1 x 6 Lydians, off spears, Arm, undrilled, Av
1 x 4 Egyptian Marines Def spears, prot, drilled, Av

Greeks in a line, Egyptians in column to give two units rear support. I have the 6 spears in the centre of the line 3,2. The 2x8s normally are 3,3,2.
The 3rd rank cannot fight but stop you losing a POA when you go one deep after losing a base.

1 x 4 Bactrian LH bw, LS Av
1 x 6 Sparabara ½ LS, all Bw, prot, undrilled
1 x 6 Sparabara ½ LS, all Bw, prot, undrilled
1 x 4 cavalry, Sup, Arm, Bow, Sword, undrilled

Sparabara in some rough that the immortals don’t want. Cav probably needed to back up the LH.

1 x 4 cavalry, Sup, Arm, Bow, Sword, undrilled
1 x 8 Immortals, Sup, Arm, Bow, drilled
1 x 8 Immortals, Sup, Arm, Bow, drilled

Immortals optimally together in rough or opposite rough in the centre of the table.