[GJS_BA] Invasion

[gortwillsaveus]

I think Mike resigned in BdB so not sure who won? Not sure where Gort is at? I got kicked out of Lebisey. You took Bayeux. Oh yes, and Random had his usual romp in Colombelles...

We have about 9 turns left.

[k9mike]

Sorry for my allies but i think i agree with granfali , we have fought against his weakenest troops, maybe he has taken less pleasure than us (especially in the first turn when he had quite only volksgrenadier troops)
I don t play this campaign absolutly to win it , i only want to continue to take pleasure every turn, we don thave fought against great tanks but i m sure we have chances to win.
And if we lose it will be very interesting to find solutions.I ve never thought we could win very fast and maybe i ve hopped that it takes a lot of turns just to have pleasure to play
Maybe we ve forgotten that granfali is the one who has proposed the campaign and he has thought about a lot of things.
I think we can trust him when he says he has done that only for fun.(i don ' t know him at all in reality but i appreciate a lot what he s doing)
Let s battle against him some more turn to see if it s impossible to win ok ?

I agree with random27,..why are we not finishing what we started?
Have we already given up? I'd like to see us play this all the way through at least once.
Sorry guys,...but I am really confused as to what you're now doing?
I say play through with Granfali as Germans,..us as Allies,..win or lose.
If you want to tweak the game once we play all the way through,..then I'm all for it.
As granfali has said,..."I don't care if I win or lose,..I just want to play".

Its alittle late for that now Bro...I already let him have the map and withdrew...I thought we were switching sides...So, why not let him have the map....It would be mine next turn.
I kinda agree with you abit about playing it out...But, it just kinda took off with the lets switch to have the feel of both sides so there may be some changes that need to be done...As we all could agree. I look at this GJS Campaign as like a "Beta" if you will....Great idea...But, definetely needs tweeking. Thats just me though.
Just a game...will play what ever you guys want to play. Fine by me.
Mike

[GottaLove88s]

Sorry for my allies but i think i agree with granfali , we have fought against his weakenest troops, maybe he has taken less pleasure than us (especially in the first turn when he had quite only volksgrenadier troops)
I don t play this campaign absolutly to win it , i only want to continue to take pleasure every turn, we don thave fought against great tanks but i m sure we have chances to win.
And if we lose it will be very interesting to find solutions.I ve never thought we could win very fast and maybe i ve hopped that it takes a lot of turns just to have pleasure to play
Maybe we ve forgotten that granfali is the one who has proposed the campaign and he has thought about a lot of things.
I think we can trust him when he says he has done that only for fun.(i don ' t know him at all in reality but i appreciate a lot what he s doing)
Let s battle against him some more turn to see if it s impossible to win ok ?

I agree with random27,..why are we not finishing what we started?
Have we already given up? I'd like to see us play this all the way through at least once.
Sorry guys,...but I am really confused as to what you're now doing?
I say play through with Granfali as Germans,..us as Allies,..win or lose.
If you want to tweak the game once we play all the way through,..then I'm all for it.
As granfali has said,..."I don't care if I win or lose,..I just want to play".

Hey Gort, Actually I agree with everything you & Random say, except the waiting 'til the end to tweak stuff. Here's why...

Half of me feels, sure, we should carry on, if Granfali listens to the things that everyone raises (like infantry being weak feebletons who suppress/die easily and Allies disadvantaged by having loads of 'em vs armies of Waffen SS with medic/rally, Typhoons unrealistically useless, etc). GJS is only a first cut, so there's bound to be small stuff to tweak. Let's all listen to each other and have a way to decide on tweaks. Nobody goes off and just changes stuff. That's gotta be fair, right?

But half of me thinks, it's taken 5 weeks real time to play 2 days game time; at this speed, it's going to take a year and a half for a 30-day campaign, so let's all explore a little, assume it's a beta and fix the stuff that we need to fix, to make it awesome.

The last half, lol... well, the last half absolutely insists that Gort and Random play 2-way Lebisey with the German "super units" and bonuses before anyone makes any decisions. I've started a game with somebody who I shan't name (who is usually way better than me at BA); I haven't really been concentrating properly, so I've made some dumb moves, but the KIA score is 15-to-3, but tbh I reckon I can take most of the rest too. Pick up the .BAM here and drop it into your GJS scenarios folder... My challenge to you two is can you avoid losing more than half your units as Allies? I'm not going to ask you to win as Allies because I'm not that mean

gjs_lebisey_woods_07pm.bam.zip

(80.68 KiB) Downloaded 105 times

Here's my proposal:
(i) Gort & Granfali finish up in Hermanville (your AARs are sounding promising, Gort!)
(ii) Gort & Random try out 2way Lebisey above. Yes, seriously. We shouldn't make a decision as a team until you have.
(iii) Then let's all come back and declare who wants to swap sides; who wants to stay; who wants to change something, anything... No barriers or recriminations; we just do what we gotta do and play
(iv) We do need a way to manage glitches in the campaign so it's ok to raise and fix problems (eg. Allies having lots of very weak infantry, Typhoon being unrealistically useless versus clouds and about 100x 88s & Wirbelwinds) and we all listen (it's only turn 4 of a brand new 60 turn game; of course there are a few little niggles).

GJS is absolutely the best thing to come out on BA, which is we're loving it and we care about getting it right... But, after all, we're all nice, loveable, decent blokes. So nothing is unfixable, right?

[k9mike]

Damn it...I would have played out on my map. I think I could have won it, but I let him have it cause I thought that thats what I was supposed to do..(stop killing germans...).
Lets just swap sides and start playing already. Its no fun waiting...This is a Beta...there is no other way around it. It needed testing, and thats what we are doing. Cause we all know there needs to be some changes. So, lets just swap and play.

[GottaLove88s]

Hi Random, Sorry I surrendered our game. You were using the old version of Lebisey. The mismatch swapped all my Panthers for Piats, which was kind of odd to have six of them, lol!

Use the Lebisey.BAM in this post -> viewtopic.php?f=87&t=36734&start=340#p354931. I've re-proposed the challenge.

Play tonight?

[Granfali]

Write inside quote for a better comprehension.

NOT EXACTLY HATING, YET, BUT DEFINITELY QUESTIONING:

1. naval arty is a useless bonus... Germans never choose to fight within range (coastal square and one next to it); Germans can actually achieve GJS "total victory" without ever exposing themselves to any naval fire, even with Allied BGs spread all over Normandy

Naval artillery exclusive mission was clean up beaches and areas close to coast. None inland role.

2. regular infantry are feeble... Regular grunts are easily mown down by a combined mortar, MG42 and 251s... even when Allied regulars arrive in cover (house/forest) in large numbers with mortar support of their own... Given that Allies have all of their force strength in infantry (about 650 units vs 350 German regulars), these weaklings are a major disadvantage... with no medic/rally bonus... Once infantry are suppressed they're pretty much dead in GJS, so suppression becomes meaningless

I think 90% infantry casualities in GJS are due to suppresion (surrender), very very few due to KIA. Absolutely agree with the possibility to change infantry durability (could be decreasing suppresion under 0 value and surrendering with -150 or -200). About infantry relation between sides... not exactly 650/350... remember all british BGs can reinforce so, exact relation is 1500/760 (B=180Paras) (G=190SS-120VG-450regular). More possible changes: mortar, we can come back and play with mortar teams with 2 men.

3. allies have nothing effective vs German armour... As I've just experienced, well coordinated Fireflies (the best Allied tank) still lose heavily vs similar numbers of even PzIVs, so it's going to be guttnacht vera lynn (sorry vera, lol) when any panthers/tigers arrive... Piats are only effective from one space away (and seem to take 2 turns to suppress even skinny armour) but smart enemies always keep armour 2-3 spaces away... Weakling infantry only have 2 charges, which can't be resupplied despite Allies possessing mulberry harbours scattered across all 4 beach squares and all 3 coastal towns... and their charges rarely kill and often don't suppress anyhow... Allies only have 30x 17-pdrs for the whole campaign (vs about 50x 88s and 80x 75mmPak40s, the latter being the German 17-pdr)

Another thing to improve is, as you suggested, increase AT power of infantry, so we can add more charges to regular infantry or (easier) insert a reload charge bonus. About something effective vs german armour:

Penetration values (%) [range in tiles]

Sherman vs Tiger
Frontal
12% [1-2] 0% [3+]
Side
77% [1-2] 52% [3-4]

Firefly (17pdr) vs Tiger
Frontal
72% [1-2] 43% [3-4]
Side
100% [1-2] 98% [3-4]

Sherman vs Panther
Frontal
0% [any range)
Side
100% [1-2] 84% [3-4] 59% [5-6]

Firefly (17pdr) vs Panther
Frontal
63% [1-2] 32% [3-4] 0% [5-6]
Side
100% [1-6]

Panthers and Tigers are very strong armor, but same that reality. Panther frontally is invencible, Tiger almost. During WWII for every Tiger disabled, allies need to lose four or five... and something similar for panthers. The allied streght were the massive numbers, and germans had a technically more advanced equipment, but few of them. In our campaign british side count with 180 Fireflies vs 82 Panthers and 35 Tigers. To this relation add, 60x17pdr ATguns). Overall ratio: 240 17 pdr vs 120 big cats. Even more, you could add the prodigious numbers of Shermans, M10 and Cromwell I did not have count...

Armored combat statistics for the moment give PzIV a "supernatural" power, but I think the scores are due to the way of use armor and luck, more that higher capacity of german machine.

4. typhoons are a nearly useless bonus... in actual ww2, typhoon squadrons used to wait in "cab ranks" in the sky to be called down by squaddies, immediately as required; 2nd TAF flew an average of 1,200 sorties per day in normandy, so Germans would never move tanks during daylight; Eisenhower credits typhoons with winning d-day because they almost single handedly crippled the most dangerous SS tank divisions (mostly through suppression)... But in GJS, weather seems to have a disproportionate effect; on a cloudy day, typhoons don't just fly less... they don't fly at all (nice to be a pilot, lol )... and even if the lazy sobs did fly, the Germans have their 50x 88s and about 40x wirbelwind AA, so the few typhoons we can use fly occasional aerobatics, rarely damaging anything... quite unlike d-day for real... So with rare typhoons and no other effective method (naval never in range, reg infantry with few/useless charges and easily suppressed ie. dead; piats never able to close to effective range on these maps, with little effectiveness even when they can fire) "normal" German armour has become immune... and the 80 or so panthers and 30-40 tigers will be absolutely invincible... The difficulty will be, against impossible odds, GJS will stop being fun for Allied players...
5. so it feels like real world Allied advantages at d-day, ie. naval arty, mass use of airpower, strong infantry with plenty of charges, don't exist... but real world disadvantages for Germans at d-day, ie. tanks too scared to move during the day, tigers that routinely broke down, panthers that ran out of fuel, don't exist either... So i'm trying to figure out how to keep it fun for everyone???

In GJS there is 70% probability for sunny days, for the moment luck smiled germans. Germans count with some 88 (most of them were lost with the first coast battles) and a couple of WW per BG. Some typhoons can be downed but much of them will dive to fire over armors. If we think their AP_Attack is too soft we can increase, but please, first we need test it.

DDay was a beach tour for you guys... Naval, typhoon and artillery bonuses. IMHO if there is not a "strong challenge" this could become very boring, for both sides. Right there is the difficulty, to balance it for all players and everyone feels a real challenge.

[Granfali]

Once said this (and much more data I could give) I tell you again guys.. I have no problem swapping sides. If I am just wanting to win, prefer british side

So decide about it, thinking that swapping or not, infantry durability, mortar men, artillery dispersion, infantry ATcharges... should be modified.

[GottaLove88s]

Write inside quote for a better comprehension.

NOT EXACTLY HATING, YET, BUT DEFINITELY QUESTIONING:

1. naval arty is a useless bonus... Germans never choose to fight within range (coastal square and one next to it); Germans can actually achieve GJS "total victory" without ever exposing themselves to any naval fire, even with Allied BGs spread all over Normandy

Naval artillery exclusive mission was clean up beaches and areas close to coast. None inland role.

2. regular infantry are feeble... Regular grunts are easily mown down by a combined mortar, MG42 and 251s... even when Allied regulars arrive in cover (house/forest) in large numbers with mortar support of their own... Given that Allies have all of their force strength in infantry (about 650 units vs 350 German regulars), these weaklings are a major disadvantage... with no medic/rally bonus... Once infantry are suppressed they're pretty much dead in GJS, so suppression becomes meaningless

I think 90% infantry casualities in GJS are due to suppresion (surrender), very very few due to KIA. Absolutely agree with the possibility to change infantry durability (could be decreasing suppresion under 0 value and surrendering with -150 or -200). About infantry relation between sides... not exactly 650/350... remember all british BGs can reinforce so, exact relation is 1500/760 (B=180Paras) (G=190SS-120VG-450regular). More possible changes: mortar, we can come back and play with mortar teams with 2 men.

3. allies have nothing effective vs German armour... As I've just experienced, well coordinated Fireflies (the best Allied tank) still lose heavily vs similar numbers of even PzIVs, so it's going to be guttnacht vera lynn (sorry vera, lol) when any panthers/tigers arrive... Piats are only effective from one space away (and seem to take 2 turns to suppress even skinny armour) but smart enemies always keep armour 2-3 spaces away... Weakling infantry only have 2 charges, which can't be resupplied despite Allies possessing mulberry harbours scattered across all 4 beach squares and all 3 coastal towns... and their charges rarely kill and often don't suppress anyhow... Allies only have 30x 17-pdrs for the whole campaign (vs about 50x 88s and 80x 75mmPak40s, the latter being the German 17-pdr)

Another thing to improve is, as you suggested, increase AT power of infantry, so we can add more charges to regular infantry or (easier) insert a reload charge bonus. About something effective vs german armour:

Penetration values (%) [range in tiles]

Sherman vs Tiger
Frontal
12% [1-2] 0% [3+]
Side
77% [1-2] 52% [3-4]

Firefly (17pdr) vs Tiger
Frontal
72% [1-2] 43% [3-4]
Side
100% [1-2] 98% [3-4]

Sherman vs Panther
Frontal
0% [any range)
Side
100% [1-2] 84% [3-4] 59% [5-6]

Firefly (17pdr) vs Panther
Frontal
63% [1-2] 32% [3-4] 0% [5-6]
Side
100% [1-6]

Panthers and Tigers are very strong armor, but same that reality. Panther frontally is invencible, Tiger almost. During WWII for every Tiger disabled, allies need to lose four or five... and something similar for panthers. The allied streght were the massive numbers, and germans had a technically more advanced equipment, but few of them. In our campaign british side count with 180 Fireflies vs 82 Panthers and 35 Tigers. To this relation add, 60x17pdr ATguns). Overall ratio: 240 17 pdr vs 120 big cats. Even more, you could add the prodigious numbers of Shermans, M10 and Cromwell I did not have count...

Armored combat statistics for the moment give PzIV a "supernatural" power, but I think the scores are due to the way of use armor and luck, more that higher capacity of german machine.

4. typhoons are a nearly useless bonus... in actual ww2, typhoon squadrons used to wait in "cab ranks" in the sky to be called down by squaddies, immediately as required; 2nd TAF flew an average of 1,200 sorties per day in normandy, so Germans would never move tanks during daylight; Eisenhower credits typhoons with winning d-day because they almost single handedly crippled the most dangerous SS tank divisions (mostly through suppression)... But in GJS, weather seems to have a disproportionate effect; on a cloudy day, typhoons don't just fly less... they don't fly at all (nice to be a pilot, lol )... and even if the lazy sobs did fly, the Germans have their 50x 88s and about 40x wirbelwind AA, so the few typhoons we can use fly occasional aerobatics, rarely damaging anything... quite unlike d-day for real... So with rare typhoons and no other effective method (naval never in range, reg infantry with few/useless charges and easily suppressed ie. dead; piats never able to close to effective range on these maps, with little effectiveness even when they can fire) "normal" German armour has become immune... and the 80 or so panthers and 30-40 tigers will be absolutely invincible... The difficulty will be, against impossible odds, GJS will stop being fun for Allied players...
5. so it feels like real world Allied advantages at d-day, ie. naval arty, mass use of airpower, strong infantry with plenty of charges, don't exist... but real world disadvantages for Germans at d-day, ie. tanks too scared to move during the day, tigers that routinely broke down, panthers that ran out of fuel, don't exist either... So i'm trying to figure out how to keep it fun for everyone???

In GJS there is 70% probability for sunny days, for the moment luck smiled germans. Germans count with some 88 (most of them were lost with the first coast battles) and a couple of WW per BG. Some typhoons can be downed but much of them will dive to fire over armors. If we think their AP_Attack is too soft we can increase, but please, first we need test it.

DDay was a beach tour for you guys... Naval, typhoon and artillery bonuses. IMHO if there is not a "strong challenge" this could become very boring, for both sides. Right there is the difficulty, to balance it for all players and everyone feels a real challenge.

MUCHISIMAS GRACIAS GRANFALI!!
This is exactly what we wanted.
To open the discussion on what's working, what's not working.

I (and I suspect we) agree with lots of what you've written.
But before we get into the detail PLEASE PLAY ME ON LEBISEY.
That will explain much better than I can in words.
It will only take a 1-2 evenings to get the idea (same time zone).
I've set up two Lebiseys, one for you, one for Random.
Both are pword super...

Use this .BAM ->

gjs_lebisey_woods_07pm.bam.zip

(80.68 KiB) Downloaded 87 times

You are both much better players than me, so this will illustrate what a bad player (c'est moi) can do with this kind of unit set and these bonuses...

[GottaLove88s]

Naval artillery exclusive mission was clean up beaches and areas close to coast. None inland role.

So Allied naval arty bonus is only meant for fighting weak VG units?

I think 90% infantry casualities in GJS are due to suppresion (surrender), very very few due to KIA. Absolutely agree with the possibility to change infantry durability (could be decreasing suppresion under 0 value and surrendering with -150 or -200). About infantry relation between sides... not exactly 650/350... remember all british BGs can reinforce so, exact relation is 1500/760 (B=180Paras) (G=190SS-120VG-450regular).

It's not realistic to assume all Allied commanders won't reinforce until they have zero units in a BG. Some commanders wanted to reinforce with 80-90% of their units still intact (see below). Para is similar to Waffen SS with less numbers (69 paras, 180 Waffen SS).

More possible changes: mortar, we can come back and play with mortar teams with 2 men.

Brits need stronger mortars to stand even half a chance versus German armour.

Another thing to improve is, as you suggested, increase AT power of infantry, so we can add more charges to regular infantry or (easier) insert a reload charge bonus.

That's a good solution. Let's bump all infantry up to 3 charges, all engineers to 5, increase AT impact of both. Add resupply for M-morale BGs (helps both sides)

Panthers and Tigers are very strong armor, but same that reality. Panther frontally is invencible, Tiger almost. During WWII for every Tiger disabled, allies need to lose four or five... and something similar for panthers.

So if I understand what you're saying, to breakeven (not win) Allies need 4-5 Fireflies for every Tiger or Panther... In GJS, Allies have 93 Fireflies. Germans have 82 Panthers and 35 Tigers. So by your calculation, Allies need 450-600 Fireflies. Or am I missing something?

The allied streght were the massive numbers, and germans had a technically more advanced equipment, but few of them. In our campaign british side count with 180 Fireflies vs 82 Panthers and 35 Tigers. To this relation add, 60x17pdr ATguns). Overall ratio: 240 17 pdr vs 120 big cats. Even more, you could add the prodigious numbers of Shermans, M10 and Cromwell I did not have count...

Ok, I begin to see what I'm missing... But it's not realistic to assume that Allies will get 2x 93 (ie. 180) Fireflies, because I can promise you that the Allied players won't wait until their BGs have zero units before reinforcing. One in particular (who shall remain nameless here, ) wanted to reinforce on turn 2!!

I think I understand... So if we're adding tanks and ATGs...
93x actual Fireflies (reinforced x1.5 say = 140x Fireflies)
33x actual 17pdr (reinforced x1.5 = 50x 17pdr)
ie. about 190x Allied guns, reinforced, that can "scratch" a Panther with a carefully ambushed side or rear shot (let's forget frontal)

versus

82x Panther
35x Tiger
48x 88mm
83x 75mmPak40 (same as 17pdr)
ie. about 248x German guns, without reinforcement, that can take out a thin-skinned Sherman, from any direction, at long range, in a heartbeat

Given you reckon that Panther/Tiger front armour is "invincible", and Allies need 4-5x tanks to breakeven, I'm not seeing the balance here?

It's true, we're not adding Shermans, etc, because they're only so much "tommy cooker" toast to a real German tank... they might slow you down for a turn, if they're lucky... but then we're not adding the 449x StuGs, Marders, 251/9s, Pumas, PzIVs, PzIIIs, Flamenpanzers or Wirbelwinds either...

In GJS there is 70% probability for sunny days, for the moment luck smiled germans. Germans count with some 88 (most of them were lost with the first coast battles) and a couple of WW per BG. Some typhoons can be downed but much of them will dive to fire over armors. If we think their AP_Attack is too soft we can increase, but please, first we need test it.

Thanks for looking at this G. It's not so much the 70%. We're just looking for a way to even out the "invincible" armour problem. In real WW2, that was mostly with airpower. The problem in GJS is that the Germans have 90x 88s/Wirbelwind AA, so even when they fly, Typhoons make little to no impact. We're not sure of the answer, but we're very open to suggestions?

DDay was a beach tour for you guys... Naval, typhoon and artillery bonuses. IMHO if there is not a "strong challenge" this could become very boring, for both sides. Right there is the difficulty, to balance it for all players and everyone feels a real challenge.

Agreed. Beach was too easy for Allies and too hard for Germans. To be fair, we should look at fixing that too...

BUT LET'S NOT GET HUNG UP ON SWAPPING EMAILS/FORUM POSTS... PLAY ME ON LEBISEY... IT WILL MAKE THINGS MUCH CLEARER THAN 1,000 WORDS... TRUST ME...

[Granfali]

But before we get into the detail PLEASE PLAY ME ON LEBISEY.
That will explain much better than I can in words.

I accept to play, of course, but...
1º I will never would attack over that map (the more open of all in GJS) vs a "superb" BG (panther or tiger)
2º I would ensure to have all support (artillery + typhoons)
3º I would ensure enemy don't have artillery bonus

I think, IMHO, you are focusing in particular battles, where obviously, german superBG have very high chance to win. And I am looking this campaign with a more strategic view. We can play lot of times "Villers bocage battle" and never will win british side, but Normandy campaign was winned in a lot of battles more than that.

For british player can be frustrating and not funny to lose battle after battle vs these sort of BGs, but same that sherman tank crews, which all of them wished big cats, suffered driving his "bad" armors... but finally won the war

[GottaLove88s]

But before we get into the detail PLEASE PLAY ME ON LEBISEY.
That will explain much better than I can in words.

I accept to play, of course, but...
1º I will never would attack over that map (the more open of all in GJS) vs a "superb" BG (panther or tiger)
2º I would ensure to have all support (artillery + typhoons)
3º I would ensure enemy don't have artillery bonus

Agreed. I wouldn't attack that monster either. I'm replicating that monster attacking you! I'm just being nice by keeping it as a 20-20 rather than the 26-20 that the Allies will actually have to play. You dice rolled no Typhoons (so far we've played 4 turns; 2 with Typhoons, 2 without). I'm being generous saying you're one of the 12 Allied units that got some Arty this turn. But the choice is, either you fight that guy, or you keep withdrawing all the way back to Dover? And I gave you 69/50. The very best Allied tank BG. Surrender already?

I think, IMHO, you are focusing in particular battles, where obviously, german superBG have very high chance to win. And I am looking this campaign with a more strategic view. We can play lot of times "Villers bocage battle" and never will win british side, but Normandy campaign was winned in a lot of battles more than that.

Unfortunately what's about to happen isn't an isolated case. 11 German BGs have Medic+Rally+Promote. 3 Brit BGs do (and none of those have any tanks until they reinforce). As you suggest above, the only answer for Brits facing those 11 BGs is to keep retreating... I don't believe that will be much fun for a 60-turn campaign?

For british player can be frustrating and not funny to lose battle after battle vs these sort of BGs, but same that sherman tank crews, which all of them wished big cats, suffered driving his "bad" armors... but finally won the war

True, but like you said, the Allies had to send in 4-5x more Shermans than Panthers/Tigers, which often broke down or ran out of gas (none of which replicated in GJS)... And in WW2 German panzer crews were scared silly to drive during daylight because they knew they would be blown to bits by the 1,200 daily Typhoon sorties (not in GJS either)... Panzers only moved at night... So I see the Tiger v Sherman issue perfectly replicated in GJS... But are the Germans scared of my Typhoons? Heck they are! They have 90x 88s/Wirbelwind AA. My Typhoon is a (slightly) annoying fly every 6-7 turns, lol...

[GottaLove88s]

Saludos G! Good start last night. Your 2nd turn Arty was bang on target, dang it! Hehe. Play on? I'm ready for you

What I'm trying to explain, by game rather than words, is that the Allies won't always be able to choose whether to fight; they'll be attacked, unless every unit next to one of the 11 German Medic+Rally+Promote BGs always withdraws, and even then Allies can only withdraw as far as the coast. At some point, they must fight... or swim...

Dice rolls are dice rolls. We can't control whether we get a Typhoon or not. Wish we could. And sometimes, when you don't have Typhoon, you're still going to be attacked. Especially when you don't have a Typhoon. We're fighting a very smart enemy. And you'd be surprised by the zero impact that a Typhoon makes when the enemy has two 88s and a Wirbelwind on the map. Looking for solutions, maybe we should reduce the Typhoon AA vulnerability and increase it's bomb effect, so that it actually does something in GJS (when it's not cloudy)?

Allies only get average 3 Arty per turn (6 Arty per 2-turn day) but they have maybe 7 to 8 BGs (per turn) fighting on the front line. 4 or 5 BGs, per turn, won't get Arty. And sometimes, we'll just guess wrong where the battles will be. In this example, your enemy PzBG started in Abbaye. You were "sure" the Germans would attack Hermanville or Buron, so you withdrew two BGs from there, into Hillman and Thaon, giving the Germans Hermanville and Buron for free because you "knew" they would dissolve you. 69/50 is made of tougher stuff, it's the best Allied tank BG, so you decided to make a stand in Lebisey. You were lucky because you gave Arty to 69/50 in Lebisey, just in case, and to defences in Caen and Bayeux.

But there's absolutely no way you can control how the enemy allocates his Arty... Or is there some trick we've misunderstood?

Shall we have a quick Skype chat after work? I've replied a contact request to your account... All this is easily fixed, for example by tweaking infantry, piats, typhoon... maybe giving M-morale BGs some bonuses... Let's discuss... I believe we're beginning to understand each other

[random27]

Is it normal that the yellow field in this map gives no cover? i thought it was the case but it seems no
Maybe it could help brit attacks
And for realism soldiers can hide in corn fields no?

[GottaLove88s]

Is it normal that the yellow field in this map gives no cover? i thought it was the case but it seems no
Maybe it could help brit attacks
And for realism soldiers can hide in corn fields no?

Yes, I didn't understand this either. Normally, in the 1940's France scenarios cornfields give great cover. I used them all the time, hehe. When I was attacking Lebisey as a Brit, only a week ago but it feels like a lifetime lol, cornfields didn't seem to give me any cover. This must be a mapping thing? Perhaps the type of terrain tile underneath the corn? It was a pain during the actual game, but I'm sure G can fix it for next use in GJS tho... I hope so. Brits need corn.

[Granfali]

7PM Bois du Bavent German attack

Granfali - k9mike

Battle finished. Map taken by german side. 6AL / 6 Withdraws.

Casualities

Germans - 192/21Pz
2 Marder III
1 Puma
1 251/1
7 Infantry
1 FT
1 PzSchreck
British - 6AL/6
2 Bren Carrier
1 17pdr
4 Paras
1 Mortar
1 Vickers
1 Scout
2 Flamethrower
2 Piat

[Granfali]

Is it normal that the yellow field in this map gives no cover? i thought it was the case but it seems no
Maybe it could help brit attacks
And for realism soldiers can hide in corn fields no?

Yes, I didn't understand this either. Normally, in the 1940's France scenarios cornfields give great cover. I used them all the time, hehe. When I was attacking Lebisey as a Brit, only a week ago but it feels like a lifetime lol, cornfields didn't seem to give me any cover. This must be a mapping thing? Perhaps the type of terrain tile underneath the corn? It was a pain during the actual game, but I'm sure G can fix it for next use in GJS tho... I hope so. Brits need corn.

I don't remember to paint corn in that map, it was copied from a Maximus map and then added some more elements... but grain was. May be repainting with France40 grain...

[GottaLove88s]

Is it normal that the yellow field in this map gives no cover? i thought it was the case but it seems no
Maybe it could help brit attacks
And for realism soldiers can hide in corn fields no?

Yes, I didn't understand this either. Normally, in the 1940's France scenarios cornfields give great cover. I used them all the time, hehe. When I was attacking Lebisey as a Brit, only a week ago but it feels like a lifetime lol, cornfields didn't seem to give me any cover. This must be a mapping thing? Perhaps the type of terrain tile underneath the corn? It was a pain during the actual game, but I'm sure G can fix it for next use in GJS tho... I hope so. Brits need corn.

I don't remember to paint corn in that map, it was copied from a Maximus map and then added some more elements... but grain was. May be repainting with France40 grain...

I'll check some of the France 1940 scenarios to figure out how they did it... In this kind of map, infantry need the kind of cover that corn provides... In case you were wondering, that's why I absolutely didn't bother down the middle when we first played Lebisey... I realised that all of the Brit infantry were completely visible to your excellent vantage point in the Church...

[k9mike]

Jon, the only reason I wanted to Reinforce so early was to atleast get a small amount of armor support. I think that the allies should be able to have that small armor support without having to use the "Reinforce Option"...I think that if we have all the beach secured...this should be "Unlocked" so as to give us SOMETHING...It is not unfair or unrealistic...What do you think about that??
This could help with the survivablility of the units...then reinforce later when they really need it. (maybe at that point we could get mix of fireflys to..lol) Just a suggestion.
Also...If I had to I would fight with less units if I really had to...I can hold my own and I promise wont bitch anymore.
Mike

[Granfali]

Well, we need to advance... What about this proposal guys?

-Artillery bonus: same bonus for both sides. 25 pdr (so we avoid -2 delay for germans and less HE for british)

-Typhoon: doubles its resistance AAVulnerable value in cards.txt changed from 50 to 100(?) Increase BombAPAttack from 80 to 100.

-AT Infantry charges: Insert this bonus for all battles, with delay (Resupply Delay) 1, instead of current 2.

-No HighMorale BGs (SS and Paras), all normal troops so... no bonus: revive, rally, sgtdrill.

-Infantry durability: HE_Suppression halved for every infantry team. Suppression (not fire) when reach 0 (instead of 50), surrender when reach 150 (instead of 100) (with this change I look for more infantry duels, not the current "one second live, next second surrendered")

John, not sure about the success of Skype to clarify these aspects, a thing is write and read... and other very different to heard and speak... but, we can try it tomorrow about 1700 GMT+1 ok?

[k9mike]

I dont understand the Arty part...So, the Germans will get instant arty like British...But British Arty will be less powerful??