DLC 42 West 05 - Gironde

[Kerensky]

Things to be aware of:
Should be no enemy aircraft, but watch out for those sneaky commandos.

[Kamerer]

5) Bordeaux – beta 1

Level: Field Marshal
Prestige - Begin: 3,000. End; 3,575. Net: +575.
Result: DV at 16/16
Replacements: ~ 40 to top up green infantry and artillery.

Core changes:

• · Disbanded: Crusader, PaK 40s (x 2), Marder III.
  · Purchased a Grenadier + 251/1 to start gaining experience.

Problems:

• · When sub-landed commandos appeared behind a unit I had nearby – about three hexes inland. Perhaps they should appear on the coastal strip?

General impressions/comments:

• · It was a real push to capture all victory hexes by turn 16, and I left an artillery unit and Churchill still alive.
  · Briefing and messages very clear; things seemed to work very well.
  · Lack of air in this scenario should be parallel in Bayonne scenario (see my comments there). Bayonne is even further than Bordeaux for allied air to reach.

[nikivdd]

Gironde Col Diff.

No upgrades, no purchases. Sold some units from previous mission.

Very enjoyable mission. I underestimated the forces coming down. If i replay, i will chose a few different units. I let myself fool again like in the first mission, this time it happened with the commandos. The last survivor managed to scuttle a ship.
I had to rush to recapture the VH in the north, took the last one on turn 16. In my due haste i lost a Churchill tank in the process. Since there was no air opposition, i used the green fighters to gain experience, but i regretted later for not deploying my single stuka. Still allied tanks are no match, their infantry inflicted more casualties.

MV 16/16 403PP Losses: Churchill tank.

[billmv44]

General level. Starting Prestige 1182, ending 540.

This was challenging. Especially having to split my forces. The initial enemy push was too strong to resist everywhere so I concentrated on eliminating parts of the enemy force one by one. I was lucky in spotting the submarine. I was able to sink it with my Ju-87 in two turns. Once I stopped the British, it took until the final turn to recapture the victory hexes. All enemy units destroyed except for on artillery piece. Prestige was low after having to restrengthen a few units. I like the challenge of fighting the battles on a shoestring. The axis units in the west were definitely not at the top of the priority list for equipment at this point in the war. I've been keeping the extra units in my core through this scenario. I like the variety. They are doing all right against these commandos. I may start selling some of them for the prestige now that I'll be facing a full scale invasion starting with Syracuse.

DV 16/16. No issues with game play.

[deadtorius]

used imported core for this one. Started this one and got the wise idea, hey lets sneak behind them and take their captured cities so they can't spawn any new troops. Good plan but the uppermost cities are well defended so the sneak attack failed miserably. My main forces have had to take so many regular replacements they are almost all down to 0 stars and the Shermans and Matilda's are almost all bullet proof against anything I have. Lost a few units and was running out of prestige to repair or replace, and the only units left in reserve were the recon units and they won't be much good, so quit game and started campaign again with default core. This one looks pretty tough from what I have seen.

[zappel]

Till turn 10 this scenario looked like a boring scenario. Managed to stop naval and land units before they reached the ships but it took all available turns to recapture Mortagne-sur-Gironde. Those Churchill tanks were really a plague.
I think it'll be a more exhausting task to play tis scenario with new units not the imported ones.

[Chris10]

Only have started this scneario..not finished yet but first thing I noticed...
Brit SP Artillery fireing AFTER all other units have moved...
Might worth have another look at the code

[monkspider]

Gironde
Loss! 16/16

This is a very difficult scenario that I think needs some work. I think it is extremely difficult to save all the ships, especially since they can be scuttled in one shot. I just didn't really have enough units/time to hold off the attacks and also counter-attack toward the northern objectives. I wasn't able to capture either one of the two. I think that the marginal victory conditions should at least be altered so that not all objectives have to be captured and the unit slots increased.

[Kamerer]

I re-played this with the stock core. I had not noticed before, the MV conditions are to take all objectives. Meaning, it's OK to lose all the ships and still get an MV. I think that's backwards?

The (allied) mission objective was to damage shipping. If you can preserve the ships and defeat the assault, it's trivial how long it takes to mop up commando forces or if they escape back to the sea. I think MV should be protecting the ships. Even starting with the stock core, I had no problem protecting the ships. But getting through the tough defenses to all objectives was not happening.

[ThvN]

I have not finished this scenario yet, but I encountered an interesting bug. Happened twice. I could duplicate (with reasonable chance) in a savegame by attacking some British infantry which was standing on a shoreline hex, when they were suppressed. When attacked (the attacking unit in the first image has moved of and has been replaced by that Churchill) they should have retreated into the swamp behind them, but to my surprise they retreated into a hex marked 'Naval mines' . I bombarded them again, got them fully suppressed, shot them with the fortification, again they withdrew a hex further into the bay. And then, in the AI turn they attacked and scuttled my freighter. Sneaky commandos indeed. I couldn't get any of my troops on those hexes, so something very strange is going on here.

EDIT: not only can they retreat into those hexes, when trying out different things this same British infantry unit just moved onto the hex and scuttled a ship. I can now confirm that I can also move certain units on those hexes, but so far only infantry WITHOUT transport, and only from the coastal hexes, so it takes their complete move to enter such a hex. They are a bit like high mountains, I guess?

[monkspider]

I had the same thing happen but figured it was a special ability of the commandos, definitely caught me off guard.

[ThvN]

Lieutenant, stock campaign core. First was a loss, than a MV.

Quite difficult, especially keeping those ships alive, which I found to be impossible and dependant on luck if I wanted to reach the victory objectives in time. If a one-strength water-walking infantry can scuttle a ship in a single attack, there's not much room for error or bad luck. Using the stock core doesn't help, but it's adequate. I spotted the submarine but couldn't stop it, and although the commandos that came out of it were a nice surprise, there were quite a lot of them. The victory hexes were quite heavily defended, too. Kamerer's suggestion about reversing the MV/DV conditions sounds very logical.

And a small naming issue: The scenario is called Gironde, but the savegame title is 'Bordeaux'. Could be confusing.

[deducter]

Loss! This was the first challenging scenario. It doesn't help that I didn't actually read the victory conditions, I played extremely fast and just sort of assumed that victory was just holding onto the initial VH, since that was the case in scenarios 1-3. Plus I also completely failed to notice there were two additional VH until about turn 10. When the submarine came and dropped of the commandos, I idiotically sent all of my units to deal with the 6 or so 5-strength paratroopers, which was very foolish indeed.

DV is certainly possible and I would get it if I replayed this and actually followed the instructions. I think DV is currently fine, but MV should probably be just to hold onto the initial VH, because MV should be very easy to get. Otherwise, maybe add 1 or 2 turns to the turn counter, that or remove about 1 British tank from both attack groups.

[Razz1]

General
starting Core
start prestige is 451
Not enough to fill up all my units
very tough scenario.

[monkspider]

Gironde
Beta 2
General level
Ending prestige 1200
Non-Imported Core
Loss (still!)

I was surprised that there were no significant changes to this scenario. I did better this time but still got a loss. I managed to save all the ships but was only able to capture one of the two northern objectives, and that one was only on the very last turn. I still think this scenario needs a dramatic reimagining. I would remove the northernmost hexes as objective hexes but give the enemy more strength and make this more of a defensive scenario, otherwise if you keeps things as they are, I would add four or five turns to the clock.

[Kerensky]

Hmm, removal of four Allied tank units not enough? We'll keep an eye on this scenario, maybe a few more turns are warranted.

[Kamerer]

Bordeaux – beta 2, stock core

Field Marshal, Loss, 16/16
Begin pp: 1,025. End: 1,475. net +450

Problems: None Noted.

New Observations:

• Reduced opponents in first contact waves make heading north easier; however northwestern-most objective is still not readily obtainable.
• If victory conditions still value distant objectives over shipping, then correct MV strategy is to let commandos have ships when they land, and press on to objectives. Turning to stop commandos = Loss, ignoring them = MV. Is that what is really intended?

Suggestions:

Lengthen scenario 2 turns, or:

• MV conditions that all ships survive, and all but two objectives taken
• Remove Churchill behind AA battery in front of far NW objective.

If I were playing with an imported core, a DV here would not be very hard. But with the stock core, those last two objectives are just a bit much. And they are the difference between DV and loss, which seems extreme.

[ThvN]

beta 2

Colonel, stock core, Loss after 16 turns.

Prestige start/end: 1186/359 (ended up with 1859 incl. loss bonus for next scenario)

On turn 15 I conquered Mortagne-sur-Gironde (16,4), but I just couldn't reach the other victory hex, the airfield. At Mortagne-s-G, I could 'hook' around with some armor to surround the AI in a crossfire, but near the airfield I just ran head-on into the defenses because I couldn't get through Begandan, and the Matilda was quite tough. After I had made my way through on turn 15 my troops were quite beaten up, and the airfield was only three hexes away but the defenders were still untouched.
None of the ships were damaged.
I made the mistake of committing slightly too many troops on the east flank because the objective seems harder to reach due to the distance, and starting of a little late towards the airfield because the commandos were in the way, but I don't think I would have made it through that Churchill in two turns. Did not try again because I wanted to get through to the later scenarios quickly.

[Ballacraine]

Lengthen scenario 2 turns, or:

• MV conditions that all ships survive, and all but two objectives taken
• Remove Churchill behind AA battery in front of far NW objective.

If I were playing with an imported core, a DV here would not be very hard. But with the stock core, those last two objectives are just a bit much. And they are the difference between DV and loss, which seems extreme.

I just had the flip side of that first MV condition.

An enemy scout car came in contact with one of the harboured transports & they instantly scuttled.
Immediate loss of chance of a DV in one second.

Either allow for a lesser number of transports surviving or place some form of harbour defence.

It seems extreme that a scout unit should just drive up to a hex & destroy any chance of a DV.

Balla.

[Kerensky]

I went with an air heavy force, 3 bombers and 2 fighters attached to the stock CORE, and even with ridiculous 8 turns of rain (had to double check to see it was only 10% chance I was pretty dumbfounded) I still managed a decisive victory, granted on the very last turn.

Even so, a few tweaks to the objectives is in order (all transport alive and not all VH capture should be at least a minor victory) and perhaps 1 or 2 extra turns is not out of the question.