Arrival of first SE Tank Unit?

[jaggy]

Is it possible to get an SE tank unit at the start of the Oslo scenario in GC '39? That is, by winning the "Spoils of War" scenario with a Decisive Victory. Or are you still restricted to SE infantry units? Thanks in advance.

[Kerensky]

There's no restriction for getting SE tanks during the Polish campaign of 1939, there are simply none available during those months. Oslo should indeed be the first scenario possible to get an SE tank unit.

[jaggy]

Kerensky, thanks. I was under the impression that the scenario where SE tanks are first available was Lillehammer.

[deducter]

The assignment of SE units has no relation to winning or losing, there's just a random 30% chance at the start of a scenario to receive one.

Just remember to have at least one SE slot open if you want a chance at a SE tank starting with Oslo. You only get 2 SE slots in 1939.

[jaggy]

Thanks, deducter. All my SE slots are open as I had to disband any SE unit I get for the added prestige. I'm even delaying upgrading the Panzer 38t to IIIF as I don't have enough prestige. In Rommel, I'm really having to reconcile what I want with what I can afford.

[Kamerer]

Thanks, deducter. All my SE slots are open as I had to disband any SE unit I get for the added prestige. I'm even delaying upgrading the Panzer 38t to IIIF as I don't have enough prestige. In Rommel, I'm really having to reconcile what I want with what I can afford.

I assume you mean you are intending to "upgrade" and not "disband" your 38(t)'s? I don't think that's really necessary. With the Rommel setting, sometimes it's best to disband units for the prestige - you can easily trade-up to III's this way. The cost is fairly comparable. Yes, you loose the experience and kills, BUT - Rommel is juiced so that you earn experience much, much faster than on FM or whatever prior level you have been playing. You'll be surprised to see that you can get a tank unit up to 100 experience in a single scenario on Rommel with a little effort. Given the enhanced experience rate, it's often not worth scrimping to upgrade vs. disband a unit that does not have a good in-series upgrade path.

IIRC, I made the disband/purchase as soon in '39 as I could so that they had some experience on them before meeting the tougher French/British units in 1940. With experience, heroes, and skillful deployment, those III's will still be competitive at Kursk years later.

[jaggy]

Yes, you loose the experience and kills, BUT - Rommel is juiced so that you earn experience much, much faster than on FM or whatever prior level you have been playing. You'll be surprised to see that you can get a tank unit up to 100 experience in a single scenario on Rommel with a little effort.

Thanks, Kamerer. I played GC '39 up to the end of GC '43 at FM level but was dissatisfied with some of my core units. I made the mistake of having too many infantry (14 units) and none of these units had even a second hero by the end of '43! This time round at Rommel, based on previous experience, I'm very sure of what my core composition should be. I did disband units for prestige in the FM GC '39 but I'm reluctant in Rommel as there is less prestige around.

You are right, you do earn experience a lot faster in Rommel than in FM! That astounded me for a while, as I was reaching the experience caps a lot faster than in my previous game. Never knew Rommel was juiced but I'm glad it is. As I've maxed out the experience level for all my core units and about to start Oslo, all my tank units have heroes with the traits I want so I'm reluctant to disband them. But I'll see how it goes as the other scenarious roll by.

[orlinos]

You are right, you do earn experience a lot faster in Rommel than in FM! That astounded me for a while, as I was reaching the experience caps a lot faster than in my previous game. Never knew Rommel was juiced but I'm glad it is.

In fact, the rate of gaining experience in Rommel is 100%, the same as in all other difficulties, except for Sergeant
(200%), FM and Ultimate (50%). But after playing on FM, I guess it must seem juiced in comparison.

[Kamerer]

In fact, the rate of gaining experience in Rommel is 100%, the same as in all other difficulties, except for Sergeant
(200%), FM and Ultimate (50%). But after playing on FM, I guess it must seem juiced in comparison.

Er, yes, it's double what it is in FM (100% of the set "base," vs. 50% in FM). That was what we were discussing. Most people make the step to Rommel after FM I believe, so that's what I thought was most directly comparable an experience. In that regard, it's roughly double in Rommel vs. the player's immediately prior rate (assuming FM).

[orlinos]

Kamerer: OK, I got it. I only played FM once for a short time and never tried it again (my soldiers were too poor learners).

[jaggy]

Got my first SE tank unit at the start of Oslo. Seriously, Rommel mode is a blast! I like the way your units move up in experience! The trade-off in this difficulty level, of course, is lower prestige but its manageable for me.

[soldier]

Interesting. It actually doesn't sound like rommel mode would be any more difficult than FM in the long run. Gaining experience twice as fast will pay off in more ways than one and should make up for the lower amounts of prestige

[Kamerer]

Interesting. It actually doesn't sound like rommel mode would be any more difficult than FM in the long run. Gaining experience twice as fast will pay off in more ways than one and should make up for the lower amounts of prestige

It's more difficult because you simply cannot afford to buy any weapon system you want, afford to keep all units at maximum strength, and not fight in a manner that allows much damage to be inflicted. So there are multiple constraints it imposes that have to be balanced, and tactics refined more.

If someone can win very easily at FM with oodles of prestige, then Rommel is going to provide an interesting increase in difficulty, but not an insurmountable challenge. If someone struggles a bit at FM, they will likely not succeed at Rommel until they adapt quite a bit.

[jaggy]

It's more difficult because you simply cannot afford to buy any weapon system you want, afford to keep all units at maximum strength, and not fight in a manner that allows much damage to be inflicted.

I can attest to that. Just finished DC '39 and at the start of Eben-Emael, can't afford to upgrade the Panzer 38t to Panzer IVD. Luckily, the SE tank units are IIIF (decent tank but low fuel).

[jaggy]

Does anybody know the reason why the SE tank units are always behind compared to their regular counterparts? At the start of Eben-Emael, Panzer 38t can be upgraded to Panzer IVD, but for the SE tank units, no such option is available. I thought SS tank units received priority over the regular army when it comes to equipment?

[airbornemongo101]

Does anybody know the reason why the SE tank units are always behind compared to their regular counterparts? At the start of Eben-Emael, Panzer 38t can be upgraded to Panzer IVD, but for the SE tank units, no such option is available. I thought SS tank units received priority over the regular army when it comes to equipment?

Not really...the only Waffen SS units that had any armored vehs , at the time of the invasion of the Low Countries and France, were the LSSAH (Brigade) and the Totenkopf.

The LSSAH had a comanpy of Stug A's

The Totenkopf had some Pz38t's that Eicke literally stole from the Heer when they were sitting in a wharehouse in Czechslovakia.

The Waffen SS didn't get large scale formations of AFV's until Russia,so in reality there should be no SE Panzers until Operation Barborosa, but I'm not a badge carrying member of the Historical Accuracy Police.

The whole myth of the Waffen SS getting the best equipment was ,just that, a myth until late 43'. It was largely due to the impressive fighting record of the Waffen SS in 42-43 that the Waffen SS divisions started getting a higher percentage of new equipement

This coincided w/ the "Nazi Salute" becoming mandatory (prior to late '43 most of the Wehrmacht,and yes the majority of the Waffen SS also, used the traditional military salute. The Allegemaine SS and Totenkopfverbandes were the only groups the were largely using the "Nazi Salute"). Hitler thought that making the "Nazi Salute" mandatory would instill the "proper fighting spirit" in the whole Wehrmacht.

There is also the fact of Hitler's paranoia (after the Valkyrie plot he no longer really trusted the Heer ,save for Heer die-hards like Model, etc....). He diverted most new production of ,almost exclusively, AFV's to the Waffen SS.

Before that only a certain percentage of equipment (by agreement w/ the Heer) went to the Waffen SS

IE: contrary to popular belief ,the Waffen SS had no Panther's at Kursk and only about 20 Tigers . All of the Panther's ,all of the Elefants ,and majority of the Tigers were fielded by Heer units. Only one Inf .battalion in each Waffen SS Panzer Division was mounted in halftracks,whereas, most of the Heer Panzer Division's had a whole Inf. regiment mounted in halftracks

The bulk of the Waffen SS's Panzer batt's at Kursk where late model PIII's and some "long gun" PIV's. and the majority of these were "hand-me downs" from the Heer that had been refurbed.

The lack of large formations of dedicated panzers in '42 early '43 was one of the primary reasons that the Waffen SS used huge amounts of captured Soviet equipment

IE: Das Reich's second panzer battalion was equipped exclusivley w/ T-34's at Kursk

So it's kinda good that until later in the game the Heer stuff becomes avl. b4 the SE's

[jaggy]

The Waffen SS didn't get large scale formations of AFV's until Russia,so in reality there should be no SE Panzers until Operation Barborosa, but I'm not a badge carrying member of the Historical Accuracy Police.

Same here, I'm fine with historical deviations when it comes to receiving new equipment
Thanks airbornemongo, for the in-depth historical analysis. I need to read more. Could you recommend some books that you think might make interesting reading?

[airbornemongo101]

Yep...I'll drop you a pm tommorow w/ some good titles

[jaggy]

Thanks, airbornemongo. I'm at work now but will check the pm when I get back.