How to Deploy More Paras in the Air?

[jaggy]

I have bought 3 Fallschirmjager for the Oslo scenario but I can only deploy 2 in the air, the other has to be on the ground or transported by the navy. Is it possible to deploy all 3 in the air for this scenario? I remember there were some posts regarding this topic, I think, but couldn't find it with the forum search engine. Any advice welcome. Thanks in advance.

[El_Condoro]

You used to be able to use cheat codes, but I seem to recall "air #" has been removed in AK.

[huertgenwald]

If you open "Oslo" in your scenario editor you can verify how many airtransports are allowed.

[El_Condoro]

Or just disband the 3rd fallschirmers and deploy the 2 the designer intends. I assume the issue is the availability of transports (historically) - the limit is probably to reflect that, as well as to keep it 'real'. Paratroops need to be landed close to supporting land troops - Market Garden emphasised that - but in PzC you can fly them into northern Norway and drop them nowhere near any support and they can still supply themselves fully. 3 such units might make the scenario a bit too easy.

[jaggy]

@El Condoro - Thanks, I used the cheat code "air 1" to increase the slot availability. I'm on Panzer Corps ver 1.05b, so no issues with this cheat code. Not too sure historically about the air transport availability but the devs did provide 2 auxiliary Fallschirmjagers that start in the air in this scenario, so I guess its they didn't want too many airborne paras.

@huertgenwald - Thanks, I think I'll do that, good to know in advance how many you can deploy at the start.

[El_Condoro]

You can hover the mouse over the transport icon to see allowed transports, too.

[naughtybalrog]

Condor, I don't totally agree with your assessment of airborne usage ~ paratroops do not need to be landed close to supporting troops:

I was on a USAF aircrew flying transport aircraft for 12 years and we practiced (and occasionally did for real) deep penentration missions behind enemy lines, far from any ground troops that would link up with the paras. If your only reference is Market Garden (A Bridge Too Far), then your knowledge and perspective is limited. Airborne troops may be inserted for various reasons: secure a base, secure an airfield, destroy a bridge or facility, rescue an unit of individual, interdict supply columns, terminate a command... all far from friendly lines. Resupply may or may not be an issue but certainly could have been done by further airdrops. Further, extraction may not have been with ground force link-up but through some escape vector back toward friendly lines, or seacoast or, perhaps, an airlift from a captured airfield.

Jaggy,
If I have more paras than transports, I keep the troopers (or airdroppable equipment in Mongo's Mod) on a friendly airfield until the airborne blokes drop which makes that transport aircraft immediately available.


As far as these awesome scenarios go ~ the beauty of PzC, among many things, is to try to do something different than was done in history and see if such a change makes a difference.

[El_Condoro]

I was only referring to WW2 - I know airborne drops made now can penetrate almost anywhere. Also thinking about regimental or even divisional sized drops. Recently reading about Operation Varsity:

Operation Varsity would be the largest single-lift airborne operation conducted during the conflict; more significantly, it would contradict previous airborne strategy by having the airborne troops drop after the initial amphibious landings, in order to minimize the risks to the airborne troops learned from the experiences of Operation Market Garden. Unlike Market Garden, the airborne forces would be dropped only a relatively short distance behind German lines, thereby ensuring that reinforcements in the form of Allied ground forces would be able to link up with them within a short period: this avoided risking the same type of disaster that had befallen the British 1st Airborne Division when it had been isolated and practically annihilated by German infantry and armour at Arnhem.

[jaggy]

You can hover the mouse over the transport icon to see allowed transports, too.

El_Condoro, nice tip, thanks.

Jaggy, If I have more paras than transports, I keep the troopers (or airdroppable equipment in Mongo's Mod) on a friendly airfield until the airborne blokes drop which makes that transport aircraft immediately available.

naughtybalrog, that's an excellent idea! Wish I had thought of that earlier. I noticed as the GCs progress, it gets more suicidal using paras and one is reduced to using them as infantry on wheels. Thanks.

[Chris10]

I was on a USAF aircrew flying transport aircraft for 12 years and we practiced (and occasionally did for real) deep penentration missions behind enemy lines, far from any ground troops that would link up with the paras. If your only reference is Market Garden (A Bridge Too Far), then your knowledge and perspective is limited. Airborne troops may be inserted for various reasons: secure a base, secure an airfield, destroy a bridge or facility, rescue an unit of individual, interdict supply columns, terminate a command... all far from friendly lines. Resupply may or may not be an issue but certainly could have been done by further airdrops. Further, extraction may not have been with ground force link-up but through some escape vector back toward friendly lines, or seacoast or, perhaps, an airlift from a captured airfield.

Could it, that In your mentioned examples you assume by default that you have air superiority to supply your paras and that you oversee the different circumstances and technologies available by the time ?...
If you dont have air superiority deep penetrating airborners are always doomed, even today. Lets not forget this is no platoon size commando we talk about here...we talk about Brigade/Divisional drops...just the ammunition and water need is astronomic in order to hold out for only few days under combat circumstances. ...
There is a reason why major landings (divisional) never ever have taken place again...
The german para divisions dropped in Crete suffered so many casualties that german high command refrained from any bigger airborne operation for the rest of the war cause it didnt wanted to waste the highly trained and very expensive troops and Market Garden was a lesson to be learned for the allies.
We cant compare todays air cavalry with WWII paras...still...if today there is no air corridor to supply a bigger airborne unit they are grinded down quickly if they really have to fight and if they are up against modern armor or equally modern equipped infantry they are done in a few hours.
Equally I dont consider commando dropping a military airborne operation in the sense of the word....its commando and not regular troops.
So what does work at very small scale does not neccessarily work in big scale anymore and comparing both is somewhat like comparing apples and oranges
Does that make any sense ?

[airbornemongo101]

I don't want to get off topic,but I gotta respond

Airborne/Air Asslt ops must always be done when your side has air superority..otherwise it's literally suicide for both the aircrews and troops (and God knows they will both take relatively ,in realtion to formation size ,heavy casulties no matter how well you plan).

There have been alot of large scale jumps since WW2:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... -jumps.htm

There have also been large scale AAsslt missions also deep into enemy territory...both done in Iraq by the Screaming Eagles (1st and 2nd Gulf Wars)

But again you must have absolute air control to allow log. flights and close air support , and a clear plan of speedy relief due to the fact by their very nature ABN/ASSLT formations are light infantry units w/ limited AT ability, but they make up for the limited AT with espirtid e' corps and elan' (in other words a tank is just a big tough and dangerous target...but still a target ..and that tank can and will be killed.).

The sacrifices of the Fallschirm on Crete, The American and Brits in Market Garden and Operation Varsity have been studied and much has been learned.

Airborne/Air Assualt envelopement is and will continue to be a viable option for any commander of any nation that has the ability to lift and support troops from a distance.

So everybody that posted above is right.

Thats just my .02's worth



Sorry for the OT