Defensive fire

[bahdahbum]

One question about defensive fire .

pg 32, it is stated that except artillery, only a unit that choose to stand and fire may fire a defensive fire . What about infantry being charged and going into square ...they did not choose stand and fire so I suppose they do not fire but is it correct ?

[BrettPT]

Yup

Infantry charged by cavalry can either shoot defensive fire or go into square - but not both.

[bahdahbum]

OK

And another question : what about if the charging unit , while going in, passes trough the 2 MU of other units ..From other pst It seemed to me that those unit would be able to fire ( not in support but fire because the charging unit passes trough on it's way to a target far far away ) . I could find it in the rules . So What about this .

[deadtorius]

Terry has previously posted that if a charger crosses within 2 MU of another enemy unit they can fire on it. If forced to stop it will still stop 2 Mu from its target, regardless of whether the target shot and caused hits or not. The chargers will need to pass a CMT to close on their target as usual.

[bahdahbum]

OK and thanks..

In january we will oranise IWC2013 ( www.iwchallenge.be ) and there will be a FOGN tournament . My only problem is that in Belgium there are 2 of us who really test the game . The frnch will come to my place to test it and so it begins ...

[bahdahbum]

By the way , having a very nasty mind or because I have been a FOGAM referee for some time and know what can happen....next defensive fire question

- Artillery : so if the charging unit comes in the 2 MU front of another ennemy unit, that ennemy unit can fire . For the 2 MU front , does the "ennemy" artillery have the opportunity to turn 1 MU as it represents a larger firing arc ? It would enable artillery to shoot at charging units that do not pass strickly in the 2 MU to their front but near next to it !

- What about if the charging unit crosses the 2 MU frontage of 2 different ennemy units that cannot support each other while firing ..It should not happen, you have to be crazy but ...one never knows with players and with impetuous units ...So the 2 units fire : one after each other or combined dice ?

[LeslieMitchell]

By the way , having a very nasty mind or because I have been a FOGAM referee for some time and know what can happen....next defensive fire question

- Artillery : so if the charging unit comes in the 2 MU front of another ennemy unit, that ennemy unit can fire . For the 2 MU front , does the "ennemy" artillery have the opportunity to turn 1 MU as it represents a larger firing arc ? It would enable artillery to shoot at charging units that do not pass strickly in the 2 MU to their front but near next to it !

Personnel I would say no, but then again I personnel do not like that ruling I would have each unit just add support dice, but that's me

- What about if the charging unit crosses the 2 MU frontage of 2 different ennemy units that cannot support each other while firing ..It should not happen, you have to be crazy but ...one never knows with players and with impetuous units ...So the 2 units fire : one after each other or combined dice ?

I would say they do not get support fire dice as they are firing at an enemy unit so do not provide support dice, support dice is for target that do not come within the front arc.

[bahdahbum]

No support dice, Ok but the unit charging in and passing trough the 2 MU front zone of an enney unit while charging gets shot at ! now how about passing trough the 2 MU zone of 2 or 3 units in succession while getting in ! How do you resolve that .

[LeslieMitchell]

No support dice, Ok but the unit charging in and passing trough the 2 MU front zone of an enney unit while charging gets shot at ! now how about passing trough the 2 MU zone of 2 or 3 units in succession while getting in ! How do you resolve that .

Move the unit to 2MU from the target of the charge, check the path an see it it passed though an 2MU front zones, the add those dice to the pool and roll as a single then check the result test using the Fire resolution table as you would for a normal charge (but with more dice)

[viperofmilan]

No support dice, Ok but the unit charging in and passing trough the 2 MU front zone of an enney unit while charging gets shot at ! now how about passing trough the 2 MU zone of 2 or 3 units in succession while getting in ! How do you resolve that .

Move the unit to 2MU from the target of the charge, check the path an see it it passed though an 2MU front zones, the add those dice to the pool and roll as a single then check the result test using the Fire resolution table as you would for a normal charge (but with more dice)

Except, I believe, all BGs not the target of the charge hit on 5s rather than 4s.

Kevin

[deadtorius]

I agree, I believe Terry had said only the target of the charge gets the 4 hit number, all other shooters have to hit on 5's.

As for artillery turning to shoot, I would say no. I don't think you can pivot during defensive fire. One of those cases where it is safe to charge artillery as they can't shoot you up on the way in, charging from outside of their arc, and hitting them outside their arc.

[LeslieMitchell]

I agree, I believe Terry had said only the target of the charge gets the 4 hit number, all other shooters have to hit on 5's.

I did mean to say that

[deadtorius]

On second thought it was infantry are hit on 4's at close, cavalry are hit on 5's, and hit on 4's by shooting from their charge target only. blasted brain is getting all fuzzy and tired

[BrettPT]

As for artillery turning to shoot, I would say no. I don't think you can pivot during defensive fire. One of those cases where it is safe to charge artillery as they can't shoot you up on the way in, charging from outside of their arc, and hitting them outside their arc

I think you'll find that (except in a genuine flank charge) it is hard to charge a unit and stay outside of the arc.
the charging unit has to pivot to get some part of the target directly ahead of its centre, then go straight ahead.
You usually end up contacting the target on a corner with a fraction of your assaulting unit in front of the defending artillery once you contact it.

- get some figures out and try it.

Defensive shooting is carried out as if the charging unit had of closed to contact (ie the actual shooting range is 0MU, you only pause at 2MU for convenience) so you will be able to shoot a cavalry unit charging in from an angle that would end up contacting on the artillery's front corner.

That said, you can engineerto stay outside arc. You need to start your assault out of arc and only just in range. The rules say you don't have to wheel before a charge to face with your centre point if the amount of wheel required would now mean you are out of charge reach. In this case you can wheel a fraction and then 'clip' the side of the target with one of your corners.

So LC attacking artillery should ideally start their charge to one side of artillery and about 9MU away. A 1MU wheel with luck will allow you to then charge the remaining 9MU straight ahead and just clip the side of the target - meaning a dead artillery unit.

To avoid this happening, make sure your artillery has flank support

Cheers
Brett

[bahdahbum]

That decision/clarification about being fired at while going it should be part of an afficial errata/clarification .