Overlap questions

[doliphant]

After another game over the weekend I have another set of questions in relation to Overlaps.

1. I had previously thought that BGs only in overlap were treated just the same as if they were fighting to the front of an enemy BG and that the enemy BG had to allocate melee dice to fight the BG in overlap with the overlap BG using its own POAs. From the weekends game my opponent had played before and his understanding was that the BG in overlap only adds additional dice to the BG that is fighting to the front of the enemy and that the overlap BG would only contribute their own POAs if the enemy happened to feed bases across and then contact in the front the BG that was in overlap. Is this correct?
Some scenarios to help clarify if this is the case.
1a. A BG of HF(side A), 3 bases wide, 2 deep is in direct contact with an enemy BG of HF(Side B) 3 bases wide, 2 deep, so all 3 bases are aligned in combat. A (side A) BG of skirmishers 3 x 2 also joins its friendly in overlap only against the side B BG. In melee does only the POAs of the HF against HF count? and would the number of dice for Side A be 7 (1 for each base of HF in first 2 ranks, 1 for skirmishers (2 bases deep but losing 1 dice per 2 for fighting HF)?
1b. Same scenario but swap all HF for skirmishers and skirmishers for HF. Would the HF contribute 2 additional dice to the side A melee "only" and not contribute any POAs even though it is a HF adding to a skirmish melee?

2. I know from a previous topic question that skirmishers can move into overlap with an existing close combat of non skirmishers but should they not have to pass a CMT to do so? It seems strange that skirmishers are not allowed to charge non-broken non-skirmishers (even in the rear or flank) p60, which would mean ones already in close combat, not even with a CMT, but can happily join in an overlap without having to pass such a test. Have I got this right or have I missed something here?

[hazelbark]

1 first remember you fight base by base. A base of anotherr battle group can count as an overlap as you see. It calculates its POA as if its was in base to base cotact. But overlaps add extra dice they do not have dice thrown against them.

1a so the LF moves up into overlap. It will only have 2 bases in overlap. It does lose 1 per 2 when fighting non-LF so it will get 1 dice. Then its POAs will be calculated as if it was fighting the HF. So the LF is nearly certain to need a 5 on its single dice.

2 They do not need to pass a CMT. Generally speaking the 1 extra dice needing a 5 was rarely seen so much that the additional time of requiring a CMT was just unecessary.

[bbotus]

Agree with Hazelbark.

It seems strange that skirmishers are not allowed to charge non-broken non-skirmishers (even in the rear or flank) p60,

This isn't really so strange. The skirmishers can't lose in an overlap position since no dice are thrown against them and they are free to move away in their movement phase. And they can still evade from overlap if charged by another BG. So they are really just harassing the enemy (as they are meant to do). However, you have to be careful as this is one time that the enemy (B) can feed in extra bases (if any are available and none were in your scenario) and stick the LF in melee. LF are not authorized to evade from 'feeding more bases' moves.

[doliphant]

OK so I have this clear using my two examples again.

1a. If the HF on both side A and B have no net POA against each other each side would have 6 dice requiring at least 4 to score a hit. The Side A LF would give side A 1 additional dice (due to LF v HF giving 1 dice per 2) but since the LF are likely to be on a -POA would probably need at least a 5 to hit on that die.

1b. In the swap around because the LF are in contact with the LF then they will fight with the same full compliment of dice (6 each) (ie there is no 1 dice per 2 reduction for the HF in overlap because they are not in frontal combat). The HF would however contribute 2 additional dice to Side A and could (depending on the POA) require as little as a 3 to score a hit on those two additional dice.

Is that correct?

[bbotus]

Yes, correct.

Remember that the overlap dice need to be rolled separately. It is possible in case 'b' that the HF could roll 2 hits and that both LF could lose and have to take CT tests. LF'a' scores 3 hits, HF'a' scores 2 hits, LF'b' scores 4 hits. So LF'a' inflicted 3 and took 4 losing. LF'b' inflicted 4 and to 5 hits also losing.