Gazala hints?

[stecal]

Gazala is kicking my ass. Restarted it 3 times now & I see no chance of a victory, even minor. The distances are huge, allied air power by the dozens & counter attacks taking objectives way in the rear after I have moved on. Help!

[Schneides42]

Stephen

Nothing specific from me, but misery might like company! I have had similar trouble with this scenario. Next time, I will try to leave something (Italian infantry) at some of the airfields to try to prevent the SAS counter-attacks capturing the cities and airfields behind my lines. I try to keep my airforce away from the mined areas and counter-attack the allied airstrikes and also keep two fighters together (I have already abandoned all tactical and strategic aircraft from my core) to help absorb coordinated allied attacks. Other than that, just keep plugging away!

Cheers

Schneides

[Bonners]

I love this scenario, first play of it I got absolutely mullered, ended up with bits and pieces all over the shop. Second time around I was a bit more careful and managed a DV, as per usual it was on the last turn though and a close run thing.

In the north I used the good German infantry units combined with a couple of Italian artillery units to breakthrough in the far north hexes. What is needed is patience, dont start the attack until two to three turns in when you have gathered enough artillery to support the attack.

The entire centre of the line I didnt attack with until late on in the game, keep them passive and out of range of allied artillery - make sure you retreat a couple of units to protect the airfield against allied raids. Down south I used my best Italian units to take Bir Hacheim, you can use air units here as there is less in the way of AA defences. Once I took Bir Hacheim I left one Italian unit to hold it and then retreated the rest of the units back through the minefield, dont try advancing that way, you'll be in for a nasty shock.

The main part of the offensive was the mobile AK units; I did the classic sweep around Bir Hacheim and started picked off Allied tanks in penny packets, much like the real offensive. Once I had taken the airfield in the far south I didnt make the mistake of going for Tobruk as I did in the first scenario. Leave a couple of units to defend the airfield against the counterattack and then use the rest of the units to do the back hand swipe against 150 brigade. It is only once I started this that I then started to assault with the Italian units frontally as gaps in the lines started to appear. If all goes well you should have enough units in the 'Cauldron' to defeat the allied counterattacks and take out the frontline allied units as they come out of the minefields.

Finally there should just be enough time to race to Tobruk in strength, although time is limited you should have defeated most of the decent allied units by now and there will be enough gaps to enable you to take Tobruk fairly easily.

As for airpower, the Axis are deceptively strong at the start of the scenario but Allied airpower builds through the game. The mistake I made in my first play through was letting my airforce anywhere near the allied frontlines, dont do it, their AA defences are just too strong; as mentioned above, mass your artillery up north and use that to achieve a breakthrough. Once I've captured the Southern airfield then I try and base most of my units there so they have enough air time to be able to defeat the superior allied air units that appear later in the game.

See my thread 'viewtopic.php?f=121&t=36512' for a complete run through of how not to do it!

[balone]

Would love to see a AAR video of this one.

[robman]

My solution was very similar to Bonners'. I must confess that I simply got lucky with respect to the SAS and the southern desert airfield. Thanks to the briefing report, I foresaw an attack on the southwestern airfields, and I sent the auxiliary German grenadiers down to hold it. But when the SAS actually arrived, there were two fighters refueling there, and another two tac bombers on the way back for refueling. Only one of the SAS units made it onto the ground, at half strength. In the south, I had a recon unit patrolling south of the British units in the desert, so when the order came to seize the airfield, I grabbed it immediately and then hung on awaiting reinforcements. If I play it again, I will probably put an 88 at the southwestern airfields in case fighters are not as close by as they were the first time.

[brettz123]

This scenario isn't really all that hard. You do need a few things though:

1. You should have 4 fighters by now.
2. At least one 88 (2 would probably be a good idea)
3. At least 750 prestige
4. 3 Pioniere for all the mines

I would suggest attacking with all your Germans from the far south and then rolling northward behind the minefields. The things you need to worry about are the enemy airplanes but with 4-5 fighters of your own plus jusdicious use of your 88 (or 88s) you should be good. BE VERY CAREFUL WITH YOUR TAC BOMBERS!

Having 3 Pioniere is a really good idea because it allows you to clear the minefields very quickly and just as importantly if you clear all the minefields you rack up the units kill total so you get more heroes faster.

Use the 3 aux German units plus a wurfrahmen and the captured matilda to bust through the northern coastal area.

Pull your Italian allies back out of Artillery range as it is a waste of strength to sit there and be shot at.

Do this and the scenario is easy. You should see the transports coming with the SAS dudes and you can shoot them up.

[Kamerer]

I have played this a few times - in beta testing and once since then. My strategy was more like brettz123's. Each time I analyzed the map and briefing and thought it through, but still did relatively the same thing:

1) on the coastal plain, a Pz.IV, extra core grenadier, and two artillery placed (note there are only two deployment hexes, so it takes two turns to deploy these - hold some back).
2) rest of core units on the south, bunched mostly south to sweep around Bir Hacheim, with others to join after reducing it.

As he said, about three engineers. I only deployed three fighters and no 88s; just was very careful about reacting defensively and setting ambushes. The AI is very predictable (of course) about this so you can lure him into traps frequently.

The northern group of four, along with Group Hecker, takes out the Gazala emplacements. The aux two engineers (hecker) and one (core) arty go on to clear out Tobruk - it is lightly defended. The other core arty, grenadier, and tank reinforce the northern Italians and slowly reduce the emplacements. The tank behind their lines will slowly grind down each artillery emplacement, then they fall.

Of my southern deployments, one good artillery unit stays with the Italians and other aux units to add punch to their artillery. By just giving the aux units the two artillery units and a tank, it turns them from a liability into all it takes to completely reduce the defenses there. And giving an artillery unit to Gruppe Hecker, they can take Tobruk on their own. As to the Italian infantry, it is cheap to reinforce their damage, so you can rotate them into the line and grind down the defenses. There are Bersaglieri here and there, so when you need punch, it's there. I always try to look for ways to reinforce aux units (usually with artillery) and make a credible fighting unit out of them - The Russian campaigns taught me that! This is the prime example in AK I think.

With everything else, I go take Bir Hacheim and everything else. Leaving the artillery behind also made dealing with the air drop easy - just turn and deal with it without too much hassle.

I think overall Gazala is the best crafted scenario in all of AK. Each time I played it, I felt "now this is a battle." Note - the air game is tough, so if you are not super-skilled there, more than three core fighters and an 88 or two would be necessary. I think it's the hardest air scenario in AK, about as tough as Berlin in GC '45.

[stecal]

I've tried this 6 times now, even restarted the whole campaign on an easier level and I still cannot even get close to capturing all the objectives in this. 4 fighters - yeah right... what are you using cheat codes?

[brettz123]

I've tried this 6 times now, even restarted the whole campaign on an easier level and I still cannot even get close to capturing all the objectives in this. 4 fighters - yeah right... what are you using cheat codes?

Not sure what cheat codes has to do with anything. Without looking I either had 4 or 5 fighters, 1 Me-110, and a single 88. Scenario was a grind but I didn't find it hard. Even if you can't destroy his air force it shouldn't be a problem.

Do you know how to use your air force? You need to gang up on his airplanes and take try and take out 1 per turn and hurt one other. By the way I played this scenario a single time on the Field Marshal level so pretty sure I know what I am talking about. And no I am good enough I don't need to use cheat codes but thanks for asking

It might help if you clearly stated what your CORE consists of and what you are exactly having trouble with?

[balone]

Stecal, don't give up. There is some good info in this thread. I to
Have had trouble with Gazala but took some suggestions from the
people here and I think I might actually get a DV. If you don't have
88mm AA's then get them. I had the piddly litte SP type but they
Just don't have the crippling power of the 88's. Can't wait to get back
At it.

[brettz123]

Stecal, don't give up. There is some good info in this thread. I to
Have had trouble with Gazala but took some suggestions from the
people here and I think I might actually get a DV. If you don't have
88mm AA's then get them. I had the piddly litte SP type but they
Just don't have the crippling power of the 88's. Can't wait to get back
At it.

Yes this is so true. The 88 is key to protecting your own fighters. The ability to knock 4 or so strength points off the British fighters really makes a huge difference in the return damage.

[stecal]

Thanks, on try 8 or 9 I finally got a minor victory & am moving on. Some of the advice above helped, esp about sending the Heckler group along the north road straight to Tobruk - I was was always turning south. Unfortunately I was forced to destroy some of my italian units for more prestige to buy fighters, an 88 & 2 sdkfz 7/1 SPAA. This hurt as I was quite proud to have kept so many of the starting units alive in my core from the game start.

[brettz123]

Thanks, on try 8 or 9 I finally got a minor victory & am moving on. Some of the advice above helped, esp about sending the Heckler group along the north road straight to Tobruk - I was was always turning south. Unfortunately I was forced to destroy some of my italian units for more prestige to buy fighters, an 88 & 2 sdkfz 7/1 SPAA. This hurt as I was quite proud to have kept so many of the starting units alive in my core from the game start.

The Italian units are a huge handicap. I would suggest getting rid of them after the first battle. The only one you really want to keep is the self-propelled artillery you get with an A5 hero. Everything else is pretty much rubbish. You might want to tell us what you have in your CORE so we can help you. Gazala is one of the harder fights but if you can only get a MV you are going to have trouble later.

[Kamerer]

The only one you really want to keep is the self-propelled artillery you get with an A5 hero. Everything else is pretty much rubbish.

I discovered on more play a few Italians worth using, which I missed the first time I went through:

1 - that spa +5 you mentioned, though eventually the lack of range and ammo both make it outclassed and eventually I cashiered it.
2 - well before you can buy a German 88, from the beginning you can buy and Italian 90mm DP at/aa. Very nice unit, worth getting right away and building up, and skipping the German 88.
3 - at El Agheila, one of the bonus units is a Breda Ba.65 tactical bomber, it has a +3 attack hero. It works really well, and can be upgraded to an SM79 cheaply. Then, holy of holies, later on once it has like 300 or 400+ experience, you can upgrade it to an Hs129! The Italians get them a few scenarios after they become available to the Germans. It is simply terrifying at that point - allied armor just evaporates beneath it.
4 - The Sahariana mounted infantry is well worth having and using once it becomes available, switching it back and forth. It helped me find the secret/hidden hangers at "Dash to the Wire" and earn a nice bonus. It is not apparent but this is a "switchable" unit like an at/aa gun - it is mounted recon or dismounted infantry. Much better than the Kradshutzen.
5 - Bersaglieri: the original one you are given is worth campaigning, and can be upgraded in '43 like German infantry. I also upgraded my original base Italian infantry to them. I had two in one beta test and one of them became my very best infantry unit by mid-way through the game - it had pride of place in the line right into Rangoon.

[brettz123]

Very cool. I didn't ever look into the Italian stuff very much. The self propelled artillery is cool because eventually it can become a Brummbar. Can the tanks ever be upgraded to anything cool?

[balone]

What are the stats for the Italian SP AA. Might consider that if it comes cheap.

[Kamerer]

Very cool. I didn't ever look into the Italian stuff very much. The self propelled artillery is cool because eventually it can become a Brummbar. Can the tanks ever be upgraded to anything cool?

I did not notice it until the second or third time, either. Then I regretted not paying a little more attention!

What are the stats for the Italian SP AA. Might consider that if it comes cheap.

they are the same as the German 88 basically. It is available earlier, slightly cheaper, and it's transport is a little cheaper, too. Better AA choice for a few reasons. You will loose a little maneuverability later in rough terrain - it's truck-drawn and not tracked. But you can field it earlier, cheaper, and have experience on it before you can get a german 88. I find even 88 AA is ineffectual at 10 strength, but get them to 12 and then they shine. So you can get the Italian one there sooner, cheaper, and it's just as effective.

[balone]

Oh wait, 90mm "DP", thought it was SP at first. Still might try it out
when I start a new campaign.

[Kamerer]

yeah, I meant the DP at/aa. There's also the 90mm SPAT, which has the same great gun, but some drawbacks on the carriage, unfortunately. That is also in the Vanilla game in the Italian scenarios; I tried to make it work there but without too much success (because of the carriage, not the gun itself). So I skipped it entirely in AK.

[James7504]

I used the sea transport pioneers to take the northern town, they they work their way south, i deployed one of my arty and armour up there to assist. Pull the aux inf/arty facing the allied line back until you are ready to attack behind each emplacement and slowly take each out with the pioneers our tank and arty from behind and the aux units from infront. NOTE: there are a few aux units that have trucks, i pull these out of the line and send them south, they will hold the towns that my armour has taken. The aux units are useless in their positions until you can attack and take the enemys arty and AT from behind anyway, and by that time its the units coming from behind that are doing the damage anyway, the aux units are there only to hold the enemy in place so your armour can defeat them in detail.

In the south, i use pioneers to cut through the mines to allow my armour to get at the free french - done well the free french are gone at turn 4 and your pioneers have cut a hole in the other side of the mines so your force can rejoin your main armoured thrust which bypassed the free french by moving further south around the end of the allied lines. I massed my air units to assist in the south, a pair of 88s i sent to the centre to defend the aux units and fighters between the aux units in the centre and my massed mobile force in the south so they can travel and attack enemy fighters.

Your armour and SP-arti hook south of the enemy lines to the little tringe of towns, there they roll north - taking the vital airbase and towns just south of the tobruk perimiter. Your massed airforce now operate from this point in the centre of the map constantly harrasing enemy forces and any fighters spotted are to be swamped by your massed fighters. Here now your pioneers and arty roll west to take the allied line from the rear. Your armour rolls around the desert killing off enemy counterattacks.