New unit idea: General

[James7504]

I would like to suggest the addition of a new unit. The unit is your general. Its icon would be a kubelwagon/jeep/staff car.

At the game start your general is not very experienced, he exerts influence in a 2 hex radius around him. This influence give units in the radius a bonus. At the start the bonus is +1 inititive and +1 Attack and a 10% chance a units attack does not use ammo. As the general levels up his area of influence increases to a max of 5 hex radius, with bonuses to attack defense inititive spotting suppresion etc. I would say as you level up in game (between most battles you get a pat on the back, but now and then you get a promotion) you get an additional 10% to the chance not to use ammo in an attack - to a max rank of 5 (Field Marshal or 5 star general). So a max level General is very useful to assist in pushing an attack or holding in defense - but only within the generals radius.

A general can act as a deployment point (after initial deployment). At a certain level a general grant the player the ability to use 1 core deployment slot for a rally flag - this rally flag is placed at the start of a scenario and 1 unit during the scenario that has been destroyed can be reformed at this rally point. This means you use 1 deployment slot but you have insurance - you can choose 1 lost unit to reform. This is for the super-awesome fighter you have that gets pile driven in turn 10 and you simply cant change the outcome.

Once per 2 turns a general can "inspire" a single unit, this unit can leave the generals area of influence and still have the general bonus for the rest of the turn (ie You have an enemy tank outside your radius but your general cant move as it would leave other units without his bonus, you give your anti-tank unit the inspire bonus and it leaves the radius to critically weaken the enemy tank). Once per 2 turns a general can "Harden" a single unit, adding a temporary strength bonus to the unit (ie you know your recon unit is going to get ambushed up ahead, you Harden the unit adding 2 extra str - the unit is ambushed but only loses 1 str - the remaining 1 extra str is removed when you hit end turn). These abilities only last until the turn ends.

HOWEVER. A general can not attack, and can not spot enemy units. If it is attacked without that attack being intercepted it will retreat automatically (ie you have arty next to your gen to intercept and weaken an enemy attack your gen will not automatically retreat - however it may retreat if it is hurt bad enough to retreat as part of normal combat). If your gen retreats it no-longer gives any bonus until the turn ends (ie you can see your enemys gen next to some arty, the gen is giving a a tank assult a bonus and to counterattack you need to get those enemy tanks without thier gen bonus. You detail a tank to hit the arty covering the gen, forcing it back, this now means any unit that attacks the gen will force a retreat - your recon unit does this, the enemy gen is forced to retreat and no longer gives any bonus to his armour.) This is to show the HQ had to pack up and move so was unable to add co-ordination to local forces.

Does this make sense, ask questions if i have not explained this enough.

[James7504]

while i am at it i woud also like to suggest attached sub-units.

A sub-unit is a small unit added to the main unit. For example in the game each unit seems to be a brigade or division - we are talking about attaching a small sub-unit for flavour. IE Anti-tank gun battery, adds 1 hard attack. AA battery adds to air attack and defense. Howitzer battery, adds soft attack +1.

We can add a max of 2 sub units to each unit. Some combinations would not work however. IE Mountain infantry (gerbigsjaeger) could have a batty of alpine arty added no problem, but any other unit and they would not be able to use thier special movement ability. Para units would need para capable sub-units and so on.

Like Peoples general it just adds a bit of extra unit customisation, with flavour. Special sub-units with higher bonuses can be rewards, like SS-Panzergrenadiers, para-engineers, hiter-jugend, brandenburg riflemen etc. Basically it would be a way to add some bonuses to units to specialise them or generalise them a bit more.

IE: Recon unit with Moterbike infantry scouts adds +1 spotting, and Artillery forward observer which adds to arty damage/suppresion in adjacent hexes.
IE: Wehrmacht Grenadier with anti-tank battery adds +1 hard attack, and combat engineers which adds the ability to demolish bridges/rail lines and +1 close attack.
IE: SE Panther with AA battery adding +1 air def and air attack, and Logistics Company adds +2 ammo +20 fuel

Sub units could be removed and added between scenarios for prestige. This would not be capable to retrofit to the current system and would be an idea for Allied Korps/Pacific Korps/Napoleonic Korps (cool eh? Great game called AGE OF RIFLES would be the best guide for such a game - to this day still the BEST turn based war game, and you guys would be able to add SO much to it))

[kokkorhekkus]

hello to james
One of the quality of PZC is his simplicity, like (a better !) chess game
your ideas make sense, but with a complexification that doesn't need the game (it's only my point of view)
PZC is not H-of-Iron (I'm thinking of "sub units" for instance)

It seems to me that works around units could be a better way for keeping this game interesting from campaigns to campaigns, like the "rarity concept in service of variety" debate in the forum seems to focus on.

This ideas are good, I'm really sure of that, but I'm not sure for THIS particular game, but others players may have different feelings about that...exemple : the general is the king, so if attacked all the party is over !

James, we have to write a lot for better icones ! there's lot of veterans here ! (I'm only a Panzer General veteran who believe in resurrection now !)

[kmod]

This is like Close Combat game series, though they are real time wargames , generals provide morale bonus but also fight... I think that in PC they should also fight and provide with some kind of bonus to adjacent units or sthing like that.

[El_Condoro]

Panzer General 2 had a leader called Combat Support that gave 1/2 (?) of its experience to adjacent units - it was very powerful, especially if on a recon unit that could jump from combat to combat in a turn.

[James7504]

My basic idea was to represent on the field command - with its command radius and bonus. Not a combat unit per se.

My example would be the famous forward command of Rommel during the Afrika Korps campaign. In particular we can look at the battle of Gazala which is represented ingame - Rommel moved with his armour for parts of the fight and his organisation abilities in his local area was a specific reason for the battle going Rommels way - whereas we know the British had just replaced one commander and the new one taking over wasnt in the area as yet - what should of been a Allied victory based on numbers and logistics was a disaster because of the abilitys - AND THE PRESENCE - of the different leaders. Those who read up on Rommel and other german generals recognise the different levels of command and that a great commander like rommel at the division/corps level can be an "empty uniform" if promoted above his abilities.

Thats why i suggest an on-field commander, thats does not attack, and if attacked and forced to moved would not be able to give its bonus as it needs to rebase. In particular i belive in Multiplayeer this unit would be a vital and interesting piece.

As for my idea of additional sub-units added to units, it replicates the People General system of being able to add 2 stats to a unit, which made for excellent customisation within the order of battle.

[kokkorhekkus]

Rommel have an impact yes
but Rommel like other generals : it's you when you play. There is no "moral check" for the units for a general's influence near other units in this game, so...
sub_units = same fonction than heros, so...

I'm in bad mood or it seems to be ,-)

[blindsey]

I would think it would be fairly easy to implement some aspects of a general by adding leaders with certain attributes. Are leaders hard coded i PC or is there a hack-able file?

[brettz123]

Not interested in it. Seems like a gimmick to me. The player is the general in this game I don't see this doing anything other than making the player side more powerful and that just isn't needed!