second move/double move confusion

[Caratacus2021]

Apologies if this has been covered already - but the search on this forum doesn't seem to recognise a 2-word phrase, even in double-quotes!

Now then - this could just be a dodgy terminology issue...

Pg37 "If the unit always stays more than 6MU from enemy combat units (not commanders) it may also be eligible to make a 2nd move".
MAY? or WILL? I can't find any other conditions apart from the 6MU and the CMT.

Pg37 "Unit in March Column and limbered artillery may move up to double their normal movement allowance if the entire move is on a road and the unit stays more than 6MU from enemy units (not commanders) throughout the move"
That's clear enough - it mentions movement allowance, so this is a single move of double length. BUT - can they then take a CMT to make a second move? (This could potentially also be of double length, if you have a convenient road running through rear areas.)

Pg47 adds to the confusion by mentioning "A unit cannot make a double move if the first move is complex and the CMT is failed". I can only assume this refers to a SECOND move, as there is no definition of a DOUBLE move - only the double movement allowance for columns on roads mentioned above.

I work in software testing, and know very well that a small difference in terminology can have a big difference in effect! Consistent terminology is a great virtue, to be sought after.

[Blathergut]

p37: means may as in "if the conditions for a second move are met then yes, may make a second move"

p37: yes, they could then potentially make a second move

yes, double move = second move

[hazelbark]

I work in software testing, and know very well that a small difference in terminology can have a big difference in effect! Consistent terminology is a great virtue, to be sought after.

Probably a goof that Terry would concede is the rule book would have been well served by a solid final proof and standardization of language.

The rule book may not be a clean booting piece of software.

But the more I play the more I believe this is a really good game. I began when I heard scale and other pieces a deep skepticism. But I am totally smitten now. It gives a very good grand tactical feel.

[gibby]

Yep, totally agree. The game is superb and the more you play the more you want to play.
Played a game on Thur, Sat and today. All different, all brilliant.

cheers
Jim

[Caratacus2021]

From what little we have played so far, the general feel is good, although I know some people who will be reluctant to accept the abstraction of the tactical unit.

Anyway, sorry to be pernickety, but Blathergut's answer to my first question is still not specific - just what are the conditions, apart from 6MU separation, and no prior failed CMT?

Apart from that, thanks for the quick response!

[BrettPT]

Hi Caratacus

Perhaps I can try to clarify.

1. If your first move is a complex move, and you fail the CMT for this, you will not be able to attemp any 2nd move with the unit. This is in line with the 'once you fail a CMT you cannot try another one' principal.

2. Subject to the above, a unit can always chose to CMT to take a 2nd move - if it remains outside of 6MU of enemy units throughout both moves.

3. Units must be in march column to move fast along a road. Infantry and foot artillery move 12MU, cavalry and horse artillery move 20MU if they remain outside of 6MU of enemy units for the entire move. Troops on a road could then attempt a CMT for a 2nd move if desired. If successful foot/mounted could cover 24MU/40MU in a turn, - they must stay on the road and remain outside of 6MU of enemy at all times to do this.

4. Whether you a re 'in' or 'out' of command range is measured at the start of the 1st move. This is relevant for how many CPs are required (1, or 2 if out of range) for the 2nd move CMT as you will often race outside of your DCs range with the 1st move when marching on a road.

Philip, my opponent in Sunday's game, laid out a road network designed to allow his cavalry to race down one edge of the table, do a 90 degree turn and race striaght at my LOC, all along roads. Easy to prevent this tactic - just deploy a unit within 6MU of the road and it cuts the speed of the march column cavalry back down to 10MU.

Cheers
Brett

[Caratacus2021]

Fine. Thanks.

Just the 6MU from enemy and no previous failed CMT this turn will cover it then. That would have been perfectly clear if so stated in one place in the rules, rather than saying 'may' also be eligible!

The command radius bit is about cost in CP for the CMT, not eligibility. I was quite happy with that.

All clear now!

[hazelbark]

That would have been perfectly clear if so stated in one place in the rules,

I have added you to the line of people that want to slap the rules editor. I know I am in line.

[gibby]

Well yes, I was probably in that queue. But I'm past that now and just love the way the game plays. Fortunately there are a few clever people like yourself and of course active participation by the authors to help us through the treacle.

Keep spreading the word.

cheers
Jim

[terrys]

I have added you to the line of people that want to slap the rules editor. I know I am in line.

I have no excuses - other than time.
The rules were in Beta for along time - and were modified continually - as would be expected.

The problem we had was:
1) Not enough active Beta testers.
The problem being that the people who signed up either couldn't find the time to test - in addition to playing other games, or they could be bother to dig out and base up their old figures to test a set of rules that they weren't confident would give them an enjoyable experience.
2) With ongoing changes and updates, proof-reading and editing took a back seat until we found that we'd hit Ospreys deadline - at which time we were a bit rushed to hand over a finalised document.

I'm pleased with the rules in game terms, and you guys continue to give me headaches when asking for clarifications etc. - but that's how it should be, so keep them coming.

Terry

[richafricanus]

The rule says you can't make a second move within 6 of enemy, not enemy units. Does that mean a LOC prevents a 2nd move?

[deadtorius]

LOC is not a unit, it is a marker, so does not affect enemy units in any way. LOC will not affect second moves.

[richafricanus]

Where does it say that? The rule on 2nd moves doesn't say enemy UNITS it just says enemy. An enemy LOC is still enemy surely and so stops a 2nd move.

[deadtorius]

LOC is not an enemy unit so does not stop a second move. Its just a marker showing which road you are using for supply. For some reason it was important to commanders at the time and they were very concerned about it getting cut. It is actually a geographic location.

[KendallB]

Where does it say that? The rule on 2nd moves doesn't say enemy UNITS it just says enemy. An enemy LOC is still enemy surely and so stops a 2nd move.

In that case an enemy commander on his own would exert the same influence. A bit far fetched.

[BrettPT]

The others are correct.
The LOC is not 'enemy' as such, and certainly not a unit. It is the road leading off your rear base edge, that leads to your supply line.
The LOC base is just a marker for this road.

It helps to remember it is a line of communication, not a supply dump or baggage camp.