ZOC problem

El_Condoro · Post by **El_Condoro** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:15 am

I should not have been able to make the move in the picture. My Pz IV had a clear move to the position it occupies in the picture at the beginning of its move as the British AA was hidden. However, when the AA became visible and its ZOC took effect (it does have one according to the equipment file) the Pz IV should have been stopped in the forest/jungle (I knew it was a risk but decided to take it!) The hexes marked "1" should have prevented the Pz IV getting to its destination. It started in the hex above the German AT gun (57mm?).

What gives?

(Sorry about the small pic)

AgentTBC · Post by **AgentTBC** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:37 pm

That's really weird. Never seen that before.

Greven · Post by **Greven** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:16 pm

Hi El C, nice to meet you here!

I just seen the cheat codes. You didn't fooled around with the "no zoc" cheat by any chance here?...

Razz1 · Post by **Razz1** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:37 am

I think you need to start next to jungles in order to move through them

El_Condoro · Post by **El_Condoro** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:10 am

Razz1 wrote:I think you need to start next to jungles in order to move through them

That's part of the problem - my Pz IV should not be able to get to where it ended up, no matter what.

El_Condoro · Post by **El_Condoro** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:11 am

Greven wrote:Hi El C, nice to meet you here!

I just seen the cheat codes. You didn't fooled around with the "no zoc" cheat by any chance here?...

Hey, Grev. No, mate - this was in a multi-player (MP) game and the cheat codes don't work in them.

Rudankort · Post by **Rudankort** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:58 pm

If it is MP, I might be able to check it. Who are you playing with, what scen, and do you remember on which turn it happened? Maybe you can give me hex coords of this movement (where from and where to it occurred)? Any info to find the right moment in game log.

El_Condoro · Post by **El_Condoro** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:41 am

It was only 2 turns back, so when I play the next turn (against dshaw) I will be able to tell you more details.

Razz1 · Post by **Razz1** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:21 am

It's 3 and 4 hexes North of that city.

I think the hex is a cosmetic jungle display while the hexes are actually clear.

El_Condoro · Post by **El_Condoro** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:29 am

But that's not relevant - the ZOC of the AA or the Matilda should have prevented the tank getting to that hex.

I am still to confirm the turn but the process was:

Pz IV starts in Desert (14,25). It suspects a hidden unit will block its path but risks a move to (Clear) 16,24. No unit ZOC is displayed as the AA at 16,23 is in the FoW.
Move: from 14,25 to Clear (14,24) = 1 MV; to Jungle (15,23) = 2 MV. The hidden AA should have revealed its location at this point and halted any further advance of the Pz IV.
Instead, it is allowed to move on the Clear (16,24) = 1 MV for its 4 maximum.

El_Condoro · Post by **El_Condoro** » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:39 am

Since dhaw62197 and I are up to turn 14/30 of Hylan Oasis (??) the problem must have occurred in turn 12. The message I sent to him was stamped 23/08/12 8:57:48PM if that helps at all.

El_Condoro · Post by **El_Condoro** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:38 pm

Another instance.

The Tiger began its move (from a hex below the German INF) with the AC and ART not visible. It should have been prevented by the AC from getting to the INF but was allowed to pass through its ZOC.

Chris10 · Post by **Chris10** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:36 pm

El_Condoro wrote: It should have been prevented by the AC from getting to the INF

probably not if the Tiger has enough movement points to Outflank/Outrun the ZOC of the adjacent unit...I could imagine in this cases the engine calculates differently from what is displayed as supposed movement path...It all depends on how many movement points the moving unit has left when reaching the critical position...

El_Condoro · Post by **El_Condoro** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:29 pm

That's possible, although it didn't display that path the game engine might be using it to determine where the Tiger can get to. It is debatable whether it *should* use that path, though, given that the AC was unseen and it would normally take the most direct route. Man, we're prevented from dodging unseen AI units that we know are there - why should this guy get away with it!

Razz1 · Post by **Razz1** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:34 pm

Because he is an SS German unit!

El_Condoro · Post by **El_Condoro** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:41 pm

Not even an SS Tiger can get through 3 ZOCs to get to its target. The 3 British units were all in the FoW at the beginning of the Tiger's move and yet it could get to its target.

Something is rotten in Denmark, here.

airbornemongo101 · Post by **airbornemongo101** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:46 pm

Ummm..you can call me a dumbass if you want 'cuase I'm sure you checked this out already

Maybe the no zoc trait is checked ,or maybe it has a no zoc hero.

Just a thought....

soldier · Post by **soldier** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:50 pm

Not even an SS Tiger can get through 3 ZOCs to get to its target. The 3 British units were all in the FoW at the beginning of the Tiger's move and yet it could get to its target.

Something is rotten in Denmark, here

Unless I'm very much mistaken this is a screenshot from my game with El_Condoro. That Firelfy was specifically placed there, out of sight to catch the Tiger if he made an attempt to flank the troop and drive into town. It looks like my truck was in a poor place but any one of those units should have surprised and held up the big cat and yet there he is in the city.... what gives ?

El_Condoro · Post by **El_Condoro** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:29 pm

You're right, soldier, this shot is from my last turn against you. The trap should have sprung but didn't - the question is why not.

El_Condoro · Post by **El_Condoro** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:31 pm

airbornemongo101 wrote:Ummm..you can call me a dumbass if you want 'cuase I'm sure you checked this out already

Maybe the no zoc trait is checked ,or maybe it has a no zoc hero.

Just a thought....

SE Tigers have a ZOC like most other units and certainly the 3 British ones do, too. There is no 'no zoc' hero that I know of (movement, attack, spotting and defense are the options). But the result certainly looks like it has no ZOC.

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