Firing 'To Hit' Numbers

[Blathergut]

Could someone please confirm:

a) any infantry at close range (<= 2MU) are hit on a '4' during the firing phase

b) any infantry charging in from one base width (1.5 MU) directly ahead are hit on a '4' during defensive fire

c) any infantry charging in from beyond one base width halts at 2MU and is hit on a '5'

For some reason we have been playing that the '4' only comes in during an assault! Otherwise, we having been hitting on '5' at close range.

[panda2]

I believe a), b), and c) are all correct.

The way you have been playing it until now would be correct if the target were cavalry, who are only hit on a 4 when assaulting and when the assault commenced from a position directly ahead of the unit firing defensively.

Andy D

[deadtorius]

Check the close range infantry in any formation on the firing chart, you missed the *

Bottom of chart * states that only if the target is charging the firers and starting the charge partially to firers front.

So for straight up shooting at 2 MU or less still 5's to hit.

If you are being charged by either foot or cavalry it is 4's to hit at 2 MU or less as long as you are charged frontally. You shoot defensively at charging enemy who stop at 2 MU and take defensive fire. Page 32.

[Blathergut]

Check the close range infantry in any formation on the firing chart, you missed the *

Bottom of chart * states that only if the target is charging the firers and starting the charge partially to firers front.

So for straight up shooting at 2 MU or less still 5's to hit.

If you are being charged by either foot or cavalry it is 4's to hit at 2 MU or less as long as you are charged frontally. You shoot defensively at charging enemy who stop at 2 MU and take defensive fire. Page 32.

No, it states (page 53):

"Infantry in any formation @ close range = 4+ to hit. For an assaulting unit to be hit on a 4+ the following must apply: infantry must start their assault within 1 base width (1.5MU) of the front of the firers."

This does not mean only assaulting units. It gives specifics on when assaulting units are hit on a 4+ and when they are not (beyond the 1 base width). In the firing phase, any infantry at close range are hit on 4+. (Or that's how I'm reading it and that was the original question.)

Now, the only possible other interpretation is just what is meant by "start their assault within 1 base width of the front of the firers. Does that mean a base width directly in front of the unit firing? Or a base width to the left or right and in front of the firers?

[BrettPT]

Now, the only possible other interpretation is just what is meant by "start their assault within 1 base width of the front of the firers. Does that mean a base width directly in front of the unit firing? Or a base width to the left or right and in front of the firers?

Nice spot - this is indeed ambiguous.

We have always interpreted this as meaning that the assaulting infantry must start their attack within 1 base width of the "Area of Fire" (see piccie on page 53 for what I mean by this) or else the defenders need 5+ to hit.

Reasons:

1. It seems more in line with the rules for defensive fire against cavalry (who are hit on a 4+ if they "begin their assault at least partially in front of the firers"

2. It reflects that assaulters who come in at an angle are less likely to be exposed to the same volume of fire as a regiment coming straight at the defenders.

3. It wouldn't make sense if an assaulting unit directly in front should become more vulnerable if it started the assault 1.5MU away, and safer if it started 6MU away. If anything, the opposite should apply (a greater element of surprise and less time for the defenders to get off multiple volleys should arguably mean an attack commenced at close range suffers less damage than one launched from a distance).

So based on the principal 'in a case of ambiguity chose the option that seems most sensible', I think it reasonable to interpret the 'within 1 base width' to refer to a lateral measurement from the firing arc directly ahead, rather than the actual distance from the defenders.

Hope that makes sense ...
Cheers
Brett

[Blathergut]

Yup!

[hazelbark]

Check the close range infantry in any formation on the firing chart, you missed the *

Bottom of chart * states that only if the target is charging the firers and starting the charge partially to firers front.

So for straight up shooting at 2 MU or less still 5's to hit.

Nope the book reads shoot on 4+ but then there is an * for certain otherr who may be exempted.

[terrys]

I must admit that I've had a lot of problems writing this definition in way that makes sense.
It ideally requires a diagram.

I haven't figured out a way to write it any other way - so far:
* For an assaulting unit to be hit on a 4+ the following must apply:
Cavalry begin their charge from a position (at least partially) directly ahead
Infantry must charge from within a base width of directly ahead of the firers
Otherwise the chargers are hit on a 5+

However - there are also the additional 2 lines in the firing chart to take into effect:
> Infantry in any formation - Close Range - 4+
> Cavalry (who are) charging firers - close range - 4+

This means the following:
Cavalry can only ever be hit on a 4+ by the unit(s) they are charging - in ALL other cases the best you can get is a 5+ (unless fired at in flank or rear).
Caharging Infantry can be hit on a 4+ by ANY firers at close range.

It's all about 'time in front of target'

[Blathergut]

So, during the Firing Phase, infantry at close range are hit on 5+?

[hazelbark]

So, during the Firing Phase, infantry at close range are hit on 5+?

No they are hit on 4+

[LeslieMitchell]

So, during the Firing Phase, infantry at close range are hit on 5+?

No they are hit on 4+

I agree at short range the base to hit is 4+ before any other POA's

[Blathergut]

But that's not what Terry said in his response. That's why I was asking clarification.

He states that "Infantry in any formation - Close Range - 4+" means "Charging infantry can be hit on a 4+ by ANY firers at close range".

[hazelbark]

But that's not what Terry said in his response. That's why I was asking clarification.

He states that "Infantry in any formation - Close Range - 4+" means "Charging infantry can be hit on a 4+ by ANY firers at close range".

Respectfully you are misreading Terry's posting. Or I am going to beat him. He is refering to chargers in his most recent. He's tangentially referencing the 4+ as well.

[Blathergut]

okay!...thanks for the continued effort to clarify these dusty brain cells!

[Caratacus2021]

If I read this correctly (I don't think it is too difficult, really)... Put another way, which might be more clear:

Target Infantry in any formation* at Close = 4+
Target Cavalry charging firers** at Close = 4+ ;

* except target infantry assaulting who start more than 1BW outside area of fire;
** except target cavalry chargers who start anywhere outside area of fire

Area of fire is clearly labelled in diagram on page 52.
The exceptions given automatically fall under 'all other targets' = 5+. It shouldn't need stating again.

I think it is just simpler to use two separate footnotes for the infantry and cavalry, instead of trying to combine them into one footnote.

[deadtorius]

Actually one thing I would like clarified is the effect of being spent.

Some claim that a spent unit can not fight in difficult as it would fight as broken, however the question is is spent a cohesion level or not?
Personally I think spent is a combat state so a steady spent unit fighting in difficult would fight as wavering, so lose 1 die per 2 for wavering then 1 die per 3 for spent.
However as can be seen in some of the posts above others would not agree.
Perhaps Terry can clear that one up for us too

[gibby]

Hi,
A spent unit fights as disordered if its Steady, There are no additional effects on already disordered or wavering units. P69 first bullet point.

cheers
Jim

[gibby]

If I read this correctly (I don't think it is too difficult, really)... Put another way, which might be more clear:

Target Infantry in any formation* at Close = 4+
Target Cavalry charging firers** at Close = 4+ ;

* except target infantry assaulting who start more than 1BW outside area of fire;
** except target cavalry chargers who start anywhere outside area of fire

Area of fire is clearly labelled in diagram on page 52.
The exceptions given automatically fall under 'all other targets' = 5+. It shouldn't need stating again.

I think it is just simpler to use two separate footnotes for the infantry and cavalry, instead of trying to combine them into one footnote.

For the cavalry part, its * Cavalry who start outwith the front of the firers. Otherwise some clever clogs will claim cavalry 8 inches away but in front of the firers is outside the area of fire.
cheers
Jim

[deadtorius]

A spent unit fights as disordered if its Steady, There are no additional effects on already disordered or wavering units. P69 first bullet point.

If you read some of the above posts some people would say that a spent unit is already disordered so can't fight in difficult, even if its steady. Looks like they were wrong
I had thought that being spent would not affect you if you were steady and in difficult. You would fight as wavering then lose another 1 die per 3 for being spent.

Thanks

[terrys]

Infantry must charge from within a base width of directly ahead of the firers
Otherwise the chargers are hit on a 5+

So, during the Firing Phase, infantry at close range are hit on 5+?

It's much easier to understand if I explain the reason for the deduction......
> Originally - ALL infantry were hit on a 4+ at close range in all situations.
However, we found that it was unfair for a unit that charged from a position sufficiently wide of the flank to take hits on a 4+ . We therefore felt that we'd reduce the to-hit score to a 5+ because the direction of the charge ought to give them an advantage. Think of it as halfway between a frontal assault and a flank assault.
For infantry this applies to firing from ALL units capable of firing at the chagers as they pass at close range. This could mean that some units will hit ona 5+ and some on a 4+
> Orignally - ALL cavalry were hit on a 5+ at close range in all situations.
We then found that infantry found it very difficult to stop a cavalry charge from firing only - so as long as they were facing the cavalry at the start of the charge (i.e. they were ready for it) we increased it to a 4+. This gives them a much better chance of stopping the charge, but is quite risky.

The suggestion below might make it a little clearer:

Target Infantry in any formation* at Close = 4+
Target Cavalry charging firers** at Close = 4+ ;

* except target infantry assaulting who start more than 1BW outside area of fire;
** except target cavalry chargers who start anywhere outside area of fire

However for cavalry needs to be:
** only if the firers are the target of the charge AND the cavalry begin their charge from within the line of fire.
(Units not being charged can only ever hit cavalry on a 5+)

I guess we'd then need a definition of line of fire (i.e. any area directly to the front of the firers)