Partly disordered

[blackbeard66]

Hi,

A situation happened in a recent game where a unit of pikes, four rank deep, had one of the rear corner bases in rough terrain, while the rest of the unit was in open.
In a close combat situation (against enemy in the open) the files completely outside the rough terrain will fight with two POAs in most situations (one for being pikes and another for the 4th rank in the open), whilst the file with the last base in the terrain with have only one POA, as part of the file isn't in open terrain.
I'm assuming the above is correct, but please correct me if not.

Now comes the tricky part (for me). The rules say that only the bases actually in terrain are disordered. They also say that to count as Steady, a unit can't be disordered (which can have an effect on certain opponents POAs). So in this case, which is the correct interpretation:
A - The whole pike unit is disordered, not losing dice because only one base is in terrain, but not counting as Steady.
B - The file which has a base in terrain doesn't count as Steady, but the others do.

Thanks a lot for any enlightenment

[bbotus]

The answer is "C" - all pike files count as steady.

pikes, four rank deep, had one of the rear corner bases in rough terrain, while the rest of the unit was in open.
.....the file with the last base in the terrain with have only one POA, as part of the file isn't in open terrain.

As long as the base in contact is in the open, it gets the '+' for the 4th rank of pikes even though the 4th base is disordered.

Disorder is by base not unit. Look at the 2nd and 3rd bullets on page 132.
Combat POAs are calculated for on the base in contact, not the bases behind it. Look at bullets 5 and 6 on page 94 under 'SCORING HITS - POA" and also the definition of "Open Terrain" on page 135. Basically, as long as the pike base in contact is in the open, it gets the '+' for steady pike and the '+' for the 4th rank of pike. It does not matter that the 4th rank pike base is in disordering terrain.

And, yes, the wording 'Extra for 4th rank of Pikemen in open terrain' is a little confusing. But the intent is that the POAs apply to the base in contact. Here is a reference where the authors discuss this point: viewtopic.php?f=43&t=5769

[philqw78]

The pikes are not steady as some (one) of their bases are disordered, but not enough to lose dice and not in a position where POA would be lost.

[bbotus]

The pike bases in contact are in open terrain and, therefore, count as steady. So SW, SSW, and hvy/scythed chariots would not get a '+' in melee against them. However, if the BG took a CMT test, then it would count a -1 for being 'disrupted/disordered' since part of the BG is disordered. Combat is by base but tests are by BG. It is all on page 132 and the open terrain definition on page 135.

[philqw78]

And the BG could not count as rear support for friends as it is not steady. The rules on being steady are very picky.

[bbotus]

And the BG could not count as rear support for friends as it is not steady. The rules on being steady are very picky.

Ok, I'm going to start a new thread with a question on rear support.

[blackbeard66]

Thank you for all the replies. It's clear for me now. For combat purposes the status should be considered by base. So what matters is if the front counts as steady or not, for the discussion above. Where the status of the unit as a whole is considered, for movement purposes or to influence others, then the worst case applies if some of the bases are affected and other don't.

[gaesati]

A unit of 6 bases of MF charges out of a forest against a 4 base BG of CV. The MF cannot clear the forest and their rear bases are therefore disordered. The CV win the impact and the subsequent melee but do not disrupt the MF. Are the MF unsteady or must the CV attempt to break off in the JAP?

[gaesati]

I should have added that the MF are in 2 ranks.

[bbotus]

Cav must break off. Page 106 says only bases in contact count and the MF in contact are clear of terrain and steady. Chris (batesmotel) just gave a good answer to this very question. See the 16th post on page 1: viewtopic.php?f=43&t=36803