Battle Strategies

[xenophonos]

I would like to hear and share some of our favorite battle strategies.

One of mine is the standard Heavy Infantry in the center with lighter troops along the flanks.

I also like Hannibal's very weak center with powerful flanks, so that in battle, your center caves (might hold if your lucky) but your flanks close in and encircle the enemy. That tactic, used well, almost always ends in a victory.

What is the best tactic when using saaay Hoplites against Immortals? Is it just me or are those battles dam hard to win?

[joseph_kerr]

I tend to put my stronger units on the flanks a lot since the middle units tend to get bunched up more once they're engaged and most especially on my right so they'll match up against the AI's strongest units since their strong garrison unit is always on their left when they have one. Other than that it mostly depends on the terrain and who has the advantage in numbers. The units always break formation once they're about to engage anyways so to me its mostly about taking advantage of any inch of terrain on the battlefield that'll give me the edge. Playing one campaign i was being constantly being attacked and on the point of being annihilated since the AI was just churning out elite hoplite unit after hoplite unit that i just couldn't match with any of my resources. I managed to take the city of Pellene with something like three units of cretan skirmishers and 5 or 6 units of thureophoroi. I mainly took the city just to try and buy myself some time for my major producer cities and to take away one of the AI's elite hoplite barracks but it ended up being the pivotal city in my war with the AI sending all of it's elite hoplite armies against me there. I had figured that was the worst place i could take sending up light infantry against full sized armies of elite hoplites but there's one piece of ground there with a hill overlooking a patch of scrub that became an absolute dying ground for their elite hoplites. Cretans on the hilltop shooting down into their bunched up ranks with the light infantry waiting for just the right moment to charge into the scrub so none of them would be caught in the open. I destroyed dozens of those elite hoplite units with pretty much the same 9 or 10 same units and just having to send up the occasional replacement unit from Corinth. That little speck of a village won the campaign for me.

When fighting Immortals i always try to flank them with the rest of my army on hold ready to smash into their army. Ideally i'll have units attacking the Immortals with the rest of my army finishing theirs, at worst at least they're drawing the Immortals fire away from my main army.

[sum1won]

Immortals are vicous. I handle them by attacking the front with something with decent defence, say, proto-hoplites, nd have light infantry sweep up along the side slightly later while the immortals are dropping arrows on the hoplites. Otherwise they get shot to bits while trying to get to the immortals, as tough troops are too slow. Once melee troops hit the immortals, I swarm them under with light infantry

[honvedseg]

Funny, but my method of dealing with pesky immortals is either: (A) user them myself, or (B) ignore them until the end, sending a unit or two of skirmies to trade ranged fire with them while my heavy units beat up the rest of their army. By the time the skirmishers get fed up with being pelted with pointed objects, my main battle line is ready to finish the job, and the immortals are low on ammo.

[xenophonos]

I have used the overwhelming technique against Immortals but it usually requires a force twice as strong as theirs, with decent troops as well.

I like that skirmisher attacking Immortals idea. Skirmishers do have a loose battle formation, so they won't get pounded to shreds immediately, skirmisher units usually flee before they are totally wiped out (I like that) and they delay Immortals from getting to your heavy infantry. Overall a good strategy.

Lately I've been trying to use skirmishers as much as possible, and I must say, at high experience levels I am impressed with their performance.

[zorro]

Obviously battle strategies depend a lot of terrain and forces.

That said, my favorite strategy is to use cavalry to flank the enemy, and charge up the middle with infantry at the right moment. Depending on the size of my army, I like to flank the enemy with two to three units on each side. In general, I keep a 1/3 cavalry and 2/3 infantry ratio for offensive armies. Placing a leader with both cavalry groups turns them into monsters! This seems to work really well against the AI. Obviously, it wouldn't work so well against a human who would quickly adapt to my formations.

I actually tend not to use skirmishers, except for defensive armies. I find that, while certainly useful is some situations, they're not as useful as another unit of cavalry or infantry when attacking. Immortals are, of course, a big exception. Those guys are super-deadly in all situations.

The only way I've found to reliably beat armies with significant numbers of Immortals is to use flanking heavy cavalry to engage them. Infantry just gets cut down trying to reach them (sometimes even routing in the process) and immortals aren't weak in hand-to-hand combat. Heavy cavalry units do not suffer many casualties from the Immortals' ranged attack while charging, and they murder them in close combat.

Z

[xenophonos]

Which is great because the Greeks get Heavy Infantry (which are cut down by Immortals) and no real strong Cavalry.

[sum1won]

My problem is that if I try to exchange fire with my skirmishers, they usually get whomped on by the melee troops. Who always, ALWAYS are near the immortals. I have to engage them first, and if I try the skirmisher tactic and combine that to go around the battle, they stop and fire at the infantry instead of continuing past them.

Actually, for melee ability, I love the tribal guys. Veterans are great. Especially when your enemies only have hoplites. And if you need to counter cavalry, get a few mercenray regiments. Macedon is just overpowered, except for staying ability. Their infantry are amazing in combat, but run like little girls if you scare them enough.

Against massed immortals, waves work best. Send agarnian javelinmen to meet up with them, and maybe some theban cavalry.

[xenophonos]

I think skirmishers can use very little tweaking, maybe in the damage output department...

[vindtiger]

Hoplites (sometimes up to two types used) =H
Skirmisher(usualy more than just one type used) =S
Cavalry(usualy more than just one type used) =C

My usual army formation:

C
S
H H
H H
S
C

or

C
H S
H
H
H S
C
the hoplites hold the battle line while the skirmishers close in on the sides of the enemy with the cavalry closing in on the rear of the enemy. All my major armies have a general.

[durin]

Hoplites (sometimes up to two types used) =H
Skirmisher(usualy more than just one type used) =S
Cavalry(usualy more than just one type used) =C

My usual army formation:

C
S
H H
H H
S
C

or

C
H S
H
H
H S
C
the hoplites hold the battle line while the skirmishers close in on the sides of the enemy with the cavalry closing in on the rear of the enemy. All my major armies have a general.

It is normal. But AI can often good of flank attacks or long armies. Strong right or left side, so you will losse. Also it depends how you train your new armies with high training ground, armourers guild (all land), with general, weapon smith guild (all land), shield makers guild (all land), depot.....I think copper and training ground is best in start turn, a small again a long AI army, but you can win, if your army have long experiane.

[honvedseg]

My typical line usually looks like this, with variations for terrain:

C
L
H
SH
H
L
S

I only add a general if I'm going up against a freshly arrived Persian or Roman invasion army, otherwise I'd rather have another decent unit of troops for the high upkeep cost. Once I've got improved weapons and/or armor, and officers with each unit, a general isn't as improtant.

I either place cavalry on the flank for attacking light infantry, or skirmishers if facing bowmen. Now and then I'll send a sacrificial free garrison unit in ahead of the army to lure the opposing units into the proper lanes of advance for my other troops.

[xenophonos]

What I would like to see is more involvement when you build things like the League Headquarters. Since, supposedly its a League, it would be cool if you could recruit the units of your allies. Let's say you're the Spartans and need good Heavy Cavalry. If you have a League Headquarters built and you're allied with the Macedonians, maybe you could recruit Companion Cavalry (saaay for double the price to not make it too cheezy) and this way you can get a reward for Good Diplomacy, Lots of Resources and for Building a League Headquarters.

Thoughts?

[xenophonos]

Sorry to double post.

But it would bring more involvement into the game. Having a League of Allies and recruiting their units, it would be like those states are assisting you, as was the case when the Persians invaded Greece and the city-states formed their Defensive Coalition.

[dithyrambos]

I haven't faced Immortals, but so far I've found a strategy of all Heavy Infantry to work. Personally, I never use Light Infantry or Cavalry. Occasionally I use a few skirmishers, but never many. I just use Proto-Hoplites, Hoplites, and Elite Hoplites (or the equivalents of such for the Makedonijans and the Lakedaemonians).

[dithyrambos]

Sorry to double post.

But it would bring more involvement into the game. Having a League of Allies and recruiting their units, it would be like those states are assisting you, as was the case when the Persians invaded Greece and the city-states formed their Defensive Coalition.

I like this idea. Also, perhaps the allied units wouldn't cost you anything to supply, as the allies are providing them. F.E., the Lakedaemonians didn't have to pay to support the Tegeates, Thespians, and other Hellenes at Thermopylae.