There was no such thing as overkill for air power in the DLC campagin! Heh.
Yep, I unwisely bought an early Stuka and went back to correct that mistake. It just sucks up too many core slots to be effective since you gotta escort it, etc.
Early strategy AK
Moderators: Slitherine Core, Panzer Corps Moderators, Panzer Corps Design
Re: Early strategy AK
I just started Gazala. Don't even THINK about trying this one without pionieres. They are the bridge engineers of the desert. Minefields are a wonderful addition to the game!
Re: Early strategy AK
On my replay I got a free elite tac bomber at the start of Battleaxe. Um, thanks? I guess? I think I'd rather have another Pz IVF.
Re: Early strategy AK
Extra prestige when disbanded!AgentTBC wrote:On my replay I got a free elite tac bomber at the start of Battleaxe. Um, thanks? I guess? I think I'd rather have another Pz IVF.
Re: Early strategy AK
After doing some serious damage to my equipment file I did a full reinstall. That is fine. I was doing terrible. The second time around I'm getting much more use out of my Italian units and even purchasing more when they are destroyed.
I'm currently invading Malta and my core is approximately 40% Italian. I've figured out the niche that they fill and I'm having much more fun this time around.
I'm currently invading Malta and my core is approximately 40% Italian. I've figured out the niche that they fill and I'm having much more fun this time around.
Re: Early strategy AK
Did you guys find a slot or two in your core for level bombers? I loved me some level bombers in the base and DLC games, but I'm at Gazala now and having trouble finding the space and prestige for any. I've got like 34 units in my core and can only deploy 22 of them, plus two elite guys. Hell, I'm having trouble finding space to put in any infantry, though a pioniere and some grenadiers made it in Gazala since there will be minefields.
So level bombers in AK: yay or nay?
So level bombers in AK: yay or nay?
Re: Early strategy AK
Hey, keep the Italian Fighter! -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macchi_C.205
The "Folgore" and "Veltro" get high attack values, they are better vs bombers and Kittyhawks than Messerschmitts. Their drawback is the lower air defense.
I also disband most Italian units, but there are some gems and you can get great Italian units. You can also capture or get reward units, I got two Italian self-propelled Artilleries from somewhere.
Yeah, Italian units are usually NOT awesome, but some are worth keeping. Krugec already mentioned some. I use two Ju88, the Piaggio has low air defense. But it has range and spotting -> see, it's a nice alternative to have. I like this trade-off.
Some GENERAL hints:
1.) Try to finish the turn of your units on NON-DESERT terrain, like a city or fortification hex: You get only HALF supplies on desert hexes, and for a 4-5 self-propelled Artillery this means only 2 shots for instance.
2.) Pioniere are great to deal with Minefields.
3.) Try to get all depots and bonus objectives in "Dash to the Wire", it pays off, lots of extra units.
4.) Italian Heroes usually have better stats than German Heroes. (+5 Attack or +4 Defense, stuff like that!)
5.) Forget about Stukas, you will fight hard enough for Air Superiority even if you almost exclusively use Fighters!
6.) The scenario designer will punish you if you play counting on the stupidity of the UI and leave crucial spots unguarded. I will only say some SAS surprise attacks on airfields can cause lots of problems.
7.) PzIII vs PzIV: Later on the Panzer IV will switch roles with the Panzer III, i.e. the Panzer III will become Infantry Support, an even better one than the Panzer IV in Panzer Corps.
8.) Respect the Spitfire, it's high AD is almost impenetrable for low Bf109G attack values. Early on it's a flying Matilda. Try to weaken with your 109Gs and then send the "Veltro" for the kill, it has higher air attack.
9.) In the first scenarios, don't use elite replacements and hoard Prestige, you will need it later for battles with some 30 turns.
10.) British Infantry is usually very well entrenched and even if they are not, they are very tough.
The "Folgore" and "Veltro" get high attack values, they are better vs bombers and Kittyhawks than Messerschmitts. Their drawback is the lower air defense.
I also disband most Italian units, but there are some gems and you can get great Italian units. You can also capture or get reward units, I got two Italian self-propelled Artilleries from somewhere.
Yeah, Italian units are usually NOT awesome, but some are worth keeping. Krugec already mentioned some. I use two Ju88, the Piaggio has low air defense. But it has range and spotting -> see, it's a nice alternative to have. I like this trade-off.
Some GENERAL hints:
1.) Try to finish the turn of your units on NON-DESERT terrain, like a city or fortification hex: You get only HALF supplies on desert hexes, and for a 4-5 self-propelled Artillery this means only 2 shots for instance.
2.) Pioniere are great to deal with Minefields.
3.) Try to get all depots and bonus objectives in "Dash to the Wire", it pays off, lots of extra units.
4.) Italian Heroes usually have better stats than German Heroes. (+5 Attack or +4 Defense, stuff like that!)
5.) Forget about Stukas, you will fight hard enough for Air Superiority even if you almost exclusively use Fighters!
6.) The scenario designer will punish you if you play counting on the stupidity of the UI and leave crucial spots unguarded. I will only say some SAS surprise attacks on airfields can cause lots of problems.
7.) PzIII vs PzIV: Later on the Panzer IV will switch roles with the Panzer III, i.e. the Panzer III will become Infantry Support, an even better one than the Panzer IV in Panzer Corps.
8.) Respect the Spitfire, it's high AD is almost impenetrable for low Bf109G attack values. Early on it's a flying Matilda. Try to weaken with your 109Gs and then send the "Veltro" for the kill, it has higher air attack.
9.) In the first scenarios, don't use elite replacements and hoard Prestige, you will need it later for battles with some 30 turns.
10.) British Infantry is usually very well entrenched and even if they are not, they are very tough.
Re: Early strategy AK
AgentTBC, I am not sure if level bombers are worth it but got myself two in Malta.
There are not that many naval scenarios probably, but their suppression and ammo destroying abilities should make them valuable. They are also not as fragile as Stukas.
I wonder if I should have got the Italian Bomber instead of Ju88s. -> I really regret that, might disband them later for a He177 or Do217Z. But when they grt experience this might become a no-go! The Ju88 isn't outstanding, but theoretically you can use it just like the Wehrmacht for the duration of the entire war, the same applies to Panzer Corps.
There are not that many naval scenarios probably, but their suppression and ammo destroying abilities should make them valuable. They are also not as fragile as Stukas.
I wonder if I should have got the Italian Bomber instead of Ju88s. -> I really regret that, might disband them later for a He177 or Do217Z. But when they grt experience this might become a no-go! The Ju88 isn't outstanding, but theoretically you can use it just like the Wehrmacht for the duration of the entire war, the same applies to Panzer Corps.
Re: Early strategy AK
I was strongly tempted by the Piaggio as well which is clearly superior to the early German bombers. You think the ability to pay to upgrade the Ju88 to a He177 to preserve the experience is worth the lesser ability early?
Re: Early strategy AK
Don't think so, especially as the Ju88 doesn't have an upgrade path to the He177.
Re: Early strategy AK
I don't think Stukas are that bad at all.I used three througout the campaign (FM) with great success (upgraded them to FW 190 in the last scenario though). Unless I had them guarded with a "Rookie" the AI did not attack them. They really do an impressive amount of damage on non entrenched enemy tanks (weather permitting).
Re: Early strategy AK
I agree. Playing on FM with 2 Stukas and didn't have any problems keeping then alive. Though the allied air force is much better than in the DLCs and I find myself using 88s more often as the AT and AA ability comes in really handy. It is much more useful to be able to soften up an allied fighter for 4 or more damage before sending in your airplanes.Resolute wrote:I don't think Stukas are that bad at all.I used three througout the campaign (FM) with great success (upgraded them to FW 190 in the last scenario though). Unless I had them guarded with a "Rookie" the AI did not attack them. They really do an impressive amount of damage on non entrenched enemy tanks (weather permitting).
I usually disband my italian units with some exceptions. I kept the 2 M13 da 75/18s and the Breda Ba.65. I also agree that using the Italians makes you a better / more careful player as you really need to be crafty with them considering how bad they are.
Re: Early strategy AK
OK, some reports:
1.) Already lost a Ju88 and the second got away with 1 health. I am afraid it's Fighter-Bombers and Fighters only, everything else seems to be wasteful.
2.) The nice 5 shot self-propelled artillery, SiG II or whatever... suffers from weak air defense, HURRICANES wrecked already two of them, -6 STR per attack usually.
As desert hexes makes supplying them very hard (2 shots only), I now bought 15cm sFH with a halftrack. Higher AD dismounted, more ammo, let's see how it will turn out. I am just too used to self-propelled artillery for offensives.
1.) Already lost a Ju88 and the second got away with 1 health. I am afraid it's Fighter-Bombers and Fighters only, everything else seems to be wasteful.
2.) The nice 5 shot self-propelled artillery, SiG II or whatever... suffers from weak air defense, HURRICANES wrecked already two of them, -6 STR per attack usually.
As desert hexes makes supplying them very hard (2 shots only), I now bought 15cm sFH with a halftrack. Higher AD dismounted, more ammo, let's see how it will turn out. I am just too used to self-propelled artillery for offensives.
Re: Early strategy AK
Remember that some of the hurricanes you face are actually tactical bombers. Be careful around them because they will wreck your self-propelled artillery!Longasc wrote:OK, some reports:
1.) Already lost a Ju88 and the second got away with 1 health. I am afraid it's Fighter-Bombers and Fighters only, everything else seems to be wasteful.
2.) The nice 5 shot self-propelled artillery, SiG II or whatever... suffers from weak air defense, HURRICANES wrecked already two of them, -6 STR per attack usually.
As desert hexes makes supplying them very hard (2 shots only), I now bought 15cm sFH with a halftrack. Higher AD dismounted, more ammo, let's see how it will turn out. I am just too used to self-propelled artillery for offensives.
Tac and strategic bombers you need to be careful with but it isn't really that hard. Just realize where they are in relations to enemy airfields and aircraft and you can get a good feel for where they will be safe. And of course you should always escort them if you can.
Re: Early strategy AK
The most common "appear out of nowhere and attack on the same turn" units are: Pair of fighters and a bomber OR a Trio (or more) of tanks.
Best countered by: Lots of fighters and tanks.
How my Italian bomber survived past Egypt is what I call a miracle.
Best countered by: Lots of fighters and tanks.
How my Italian bomber survived past Egypt is what I call a miracle.
Re: Early strategy AK
Yeah it is a really good idea to have a couple of 88s with you at all times. It really helps when you can knock 6 strength points off the fighters before you bring in your own fighters!
Re: Early strategy AK
Level bombers: Oh yes, it's good to have one or two. Besides Malta, they are very important in Suez and India. Not every scenario, but a few critical ones - same strategy as in DLCs.
Getting the air game right in AK is (as it should be) more important than in PC or DLCs. Best way I found is to set fighter traps - recognizing what the ai will pounce on and then position a fighter just adjoining and out of range of the enemy unit's vision/spotting. It's more defensive and you need to keep doing it all scenario, but it works really well and clears the way for your tac air and level bombers to do their work.
Getting the air game right in AK is (as it should be) more important than in PC or DLCs. Best way I found is to set fighter traps - recognizing what the ai will pounce on and then position a fighter just adjoining and out of range of the enemy unit's vision/spotting. It's more defensive and you need to keep doing it all scenario, but it works really well and clears the way for your tac air and level bombers to do their work.
Re: Early strategy AK
Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. Allied airplanes are at least as good as your and tend to have some experience. It really helps to have an 88 or two on hand also. Takes some planning but it isn't that hard to deal with the allied air power.Kamerer wrote: Getting the air game right in AK is (as it should be) more important than in PC or DLCs. Best way I found is to set fighter traps - recognizing what the ai will pounce on and then position a fighter just adjoining and out of range of the enemy unit's vision/spotting. It's more defensive and you need to keep doing it all scenario, but it works really well and clears the way for your tac air and level bombers to do their work.