Holding the Ring scenario

[Caratacus2021]

Guys - this is a darn good game, despite some carping over details that I have read on this forum! But please, has anyone got any tips for the 'Holding the Ring' scenario (the Poles on the hill, with German armour and infantry coming from all directions ). It could be held up as an object lesson for the despair of a hopeless situation. So much armour, and very little to hold it off with in the mix.

Maybe I'm missing something about the game, using the iPad version (for instance, until I read some posts here, I hadn't realised that troop experience levels were indicated by the chevrons - I had never even noticed the number varied). I'm one of those old school (emphasis on the old) gamers who likes to read a rule-book/manual, and I haven't seen one - I've just been winging it.

[junk2drive]

Above in the sticky post is Manual Additions with links to the manual and wiki.

[hank]

Dittor Caratacus

I relaoded and upgraded my BA game and have been doing OK through Africa and now Normandy. I have not won all battles 1st time through but have struggled and won 2nd replays.

But this one is just too overwhelming. Does anyone have a strategy to hold on to one VP? I also noticed after replaying this one three times, you only get a Cromell randomly.

I count 3 Panthers and 3 Pz IVs plus a couple of Marders, numerous halftracks (w/AT guns) and close to a dozen infy units. How do you fight off those odds with one Sherman and a 6pdr a.t. gun (if you're unlucky enough to not get that extra cromwell)

[gortwillsaveus]

I must have played this over and over 10-20 times when I first played.
But,..there is a way to win.
It's been several months since I last played it, since I've been playing multi-player games exclusively.

If I remember correctly,...you've got to hold fire on your infantry,...as well as hide your armour around corners as best you can.
Then retreat as best you can, so you can get follow-up shots.
I'll play this again tonight (hopefully) and see how I do.
If you're really stuck,..you can always go into the options and back down the difficulty. I never liked doing that myself.

[gortwillsaveus]

oh,..and you MUST use supporting fire. 2-3 of your units should get shots in when attacking if possible. Suppress, suppress, suppress.

[Caratacus2021]

I've done pretty well with earlier scenarios. Learned about holding fire very rapidly. Also keeping tanks skulking round corners to gang up on heavy German armour when they poke their noses out, or sneaking right up behind them. But neither of those works very easily when you only have two tanks against a dozen or more (several StuGs and a Panther plus smaller stuff) and they are all on the outside! It's challenging, to say the least!

[hank]

I tried it again. There's no way to win this scenario unless you know the cheats. OR, you get lucky and find the way to win thru dozens of game plays.

[joelq]

Tried it last night after reading this thread.

I won but i had to let them take a flag before getting it back.

I chose an extra mortar and a S76 tank. Put my regular sherman out of sight at front and just move(hunt) to shoot at targets it can hurt, then get back to cover. Held fire with the ATG most of the time except my turn to take out HTs. Didnt fire the ATG unless i had good odds. It took out Panther when it came along side. Took hold fire off only when things were clear. When it gets too hot, park the Sherman and let them come through for a side shot. Your inf and mortars should stop any enemy infantry getting close front and sides without trouble. Hold fire on all PIATS till tanks pass you for a rear or side shot. The AI tanks love to rush in and park next to good ambush spots. Use your APCs to keep inf suppressed or surrendering.

The S76 sat mostly in the middle picking off the side road runner Pumas, trucks and inf. S76 quickly gets elite. Kept 2 PIATS on hold at rear of hill with 2 groups of inf. S76 would go forward or to rear to help as needed.

You probably need a little luck not to have your ATG taken out too early with a lucky shot. Im far from the best player too, so it doable for sure. Theres also probably better ways to go about it that others will chime in with im sure. Its getting slaughtered via multiplayer that quickly taught me how to exploit the mechanics in this game - still getting slaughtered, but im still learning too .

[gortwillsaveus]

I tried it again. There's no way to win this scenario unless you know the cheats. OR, you get lucky and find the way to win thru dozens of game plays.

I don't think anyone here would bother with cheats,..even if there were any in this game,..which I hope there aren't.
What would be the point?

Keep trying,...you'll find a way to win.

[hank]

No no no. You misunderstood my post. I do not use cheats in any wargame. I never have or never will. You're right what's the point !!

My point was that the sce is very very hard. I've started another ... and I'm going to keep going till I win. I usually do. And hearing others say they've beat it compels me to keep trying until I do.

Have a nice day

[gortwillsaveus]

My message was meant as an encouragement to keep trying,...and I did understand that you weren't saying that anyone would use cheats. No offense was meant.
I'm actually glad that you pointed out just how hard this scenario was to win.
I must have tried 15 times, before I won.

Now,..it's about the only single-player scenario that I remember,..and want to play again against the computer.
Well, that one and also Christmas Surprise (Battle of the Bulge). Have you played that one yet?

[pipfromslitherine]

Remember you can switch to Easy Mode if you are having trouble with a given scenario, and switch back at any time. Sometimes completing it once on Easy gives you insight that lets you go back and take it on again

Cheers

Pip

[hank]

I tried again and failed. ... twice since my last post

Is anyone who has won this sce be willing to confess which flag they decided to hold to the bitter end? I've been trying the VP at the house ... but I'm thinking maybe I need to circle the wagons elsewhere.

And ... I've bought a second tank and bought only foot soldiers. I can't tell if one way is better than the other. Except one shot can do away with a Sherman or Cromwell and it usually take a few to eliminate an infantry platoon.

just asking

have a nice day

[hank]

VICTORY !!!

... and ... after a change in strategy, it wasn't even close.

Have a nice day

[Caratacus2021]

I've done it now, too - and before reading your replies, ironically, but what I did was remarkably similar to joelq.

Sherman Firefly hunting about, other Sherman in ambush position, PIATs relying on hold fire until rear shot (as far as possible). Got lucky with artillery barrages, too - although had to gamble with some close ones and did take a little blue-on-blue. Lost one flag, but had some Scouts skulking round ready to retake it - if I hadn't forgotten to move them in the final turn! LOL.

What I didn't try was holding fire with the AT gun once it was engaged - I didn't think there would be any advantage. I must experiment with that...

Anyway, thanks, guys. I'm no great WW2 tactician, either, but the balance of this game is such that you do tend to learn little lessons quickly! I guess that is a sign of good design.

[Empgamer]

Yep, the scenario is incredibly tough. Shoot n scoot to the extreme otherwise there's no chance. The Germans also seem to have a greater degree of luck in terms of their accuracy and long range kill ability than the Allies who at times can't seem to be able to hit the side of a barn door. Not sure you need to be good WWII tactitan to play this scenario. For me it's more about finding the specific game tricks that work with this one. No matter what I do with it the 6pdr ATG seems to swamped by turn 3 or 4, either by the swarm of German armour from three sides or even by SS super soldiers who seem better at suppressing a fortification like the 6 Pdr's from 4 squares away without assistance than the Brits do when standing right next to one. Pumas are very resilient to tank fire too, as are Marders. Like I say, not so much about WWII tactics.

[Empgamer]

In fact, now I think about it, I found this scenario probably the most annoying and unbalanced of the whole lot requiring an INCREDIBLE degree of luck (e.g your ATG not getting taken out too quickly and you arty barrages actually hitting something rather an every square but that which holds an enemy vehicle etc.). I finished it and managed to hold the three flags but I only did it out of sheer determination to be beat it and can't really say I enjoyed playing it at all. To be honest it seemed a stupid scenario to me.

In terms of WWII tactics, this scenario more than any other requires a complete departure from any. For me the pieces or nothing more than tokens that move and go bang. Sometimes OK sometimes not. The S76 for instance, as a test to get its level up quickly (given that gamey action is essential to win this one), drive it straight down and park at the side of one truck and one HT. Range of results, even with upping its level on turn one, ranging from missing the HT first time and killing it second (if at all), killing the HT first shot then failing to kill the truck at point blank range, side shot. With a S76??? Shermans notoriously vulnerable to full frontal shots from Pumas having failed to take out said Puma with a perfect point blank shot from a flank ambush. Happened often I'm sure. German infantry seem remarkably accurate and devastating against fortifications too, even from a distance, as mentioned above. Try that with yours

It is just a game though, and just an iPad game (for me anyways). Many of the scenarios are enjoyable and replayable. For me, not this one. So little in common with WWII and so irritating it's not wort playing once you beat it IMHO.

[johntindall]

Hi guys. I won by holding one VP, the one furthest from the initial advance. I did this by using armor to take out enemy mech in first turn. This allowed my truck to pick up the AT gun and I relocated it into a bunker at the far end. Infantry in cover and shoot&run then let me make it to the end. I suppose I had some lucky AT shots as well.

It was close but it worked.

[uran21]

I just finished this mission. Victory on first try with two achievements met .
It was very challenging one and I enjoyed chaos in it. With little bit of less luck who knows...

Based from experience on some other games my conclusion is it is not so important to know the map how much it is important to know advanced game mechanics,
trying to predict what could happen during opponents turn and staying focused.
Since attacking is much harder and to be successful in it it requires combined arms tactics my strategy was to put opponent out of balance by focusing on one of his arms...
infantry in this case. Couple of missions before this one I learned the hard way how anti-tank weapons are more vulnerable on infantry attacks if not supported.
Paying close attention to moral ratings of infantry they were hit from everything I had but in a way to distribute firepower so majority is suppressed.
When this was done I would pick trucks, half-tracks, Pumas and Marders. So starting from the weaker and trying to avoid armour clash head on.
Some of tactics used was to advance infantry from the hill down the road to pick isolated half-track or Puma from the rear.

Airstrikes trough out the game did not show so successful against enclosed armour so I would rather pick some light open topped armour.
Opportunity fire works in a way that unit will be given a free shot if it detects enemy action on opponents turn but if it didn't fire shots on its own turn it will be given those shots too. So it makes multiple shots during enemy advance with each one stopping advancing unit. On the sides of the hill I would place my Firefly adjacent to enemy infantry and than fire on it with my own infantry. If their morale drops bellow zero they will surrender when one places unit adjacent to it.

Nonetheless one of the Shermans was destroyed early on as well as the anti-tank gun. First line of defense on the left side of the hill was overrun but PIAT team escaped on time. Based on this experience I do not think placing PIAT on first line is such a good idea also considering the fact the one on the other side of the hill got killed that way.
Anyway enemy had mostly armour to advance on and near the hill. One Panther destroyed by Firefly on side shot other by infantry with rear shot and all armour decimated and than remaining infantry cleared away. Firefly didn't had an easy time and was suppressed and retreated from the battle for some time. Flag didn't change hand though.
On the right side of the hill I wasn't so lucky. Although strategy with eliminating infantry worked and some of the armour was destroyed it was not enough.
Flag was captured. Firefly got suppressed and all infantry but one PIAT was out of anti-tank capability. Non existence of enemy infantry helped my troops survive and recapture the flag eventually. But even if there was more time for a mission it would go to enemy's favor.
I had all flags at the end of a mission and less than 10 units killed.

[johntindall]

Uran21, sounds as though you're challenging the senior players.

Let us know how you go!