outcome moves + obstacles

[bahdahbum]

In a game we began yesterday ( and still have to finish ) , we had the following case :

during the outcome move, a unit has to retreat but while retreating arrives at an obstacle . In this case a river you can only cross with a general and a CMT . Even shifting, there will still be a river ...so what happens ? Does the unit stop or cross anyway ! which may make it move further away than roled for ...

Other question : does an obstacle, other than a river, influence movement ( a wall, a line of trees..) ?

By the way, the game, quatre-bras based on the Nappoleon's battles scen, 3 x 3 works pretty well . More news latter .

[deadtorius]

Educated guess here, I would think if you hit an obstacle you would stop, regardless of how much movement you left. Bad news if you are being pursued as you might get caught. Another reason to keep clear lanes of retreat behind you.

[bahdahbum]

That's what we did !

Now for the second part : it is easy to get lanes free in a "normal" game . But check terrain of some historical battles ...it is sometimes a real mess . Quatre-Bras is very difficult, the french have to cross a wood ( rough cover ) that's uphill ( and defende ), a rdeep stream with à pond, some marches and behind it a road with an orchard along it ...and some 15 cm open space .. not very easy but very funny . Once you croos that stream ( with general and CMT ) it is behind you ...and the ennemy is in front .

[deadtorius]

no one said reality was as easy as our pretend battlefields are.
that must have been why Wellington chose it to make his stand against Napoleon. When you read the historical actions, you have to wonder why anyone would want to even attempt half the stuff they had to go through. I think our predecessors were much tougher than we are today. Advancing into grape shot anyone???

[terrys]

Educated guess here, I would think if you hit an obstacle you would stop, regardless of how much movement you left. Bad news if you are being pursued as you might get caught. Another reason to keep clear lanes of retreat behind you.

For consistency's sake a river should be counted as an obstacle that cannot be occupied (since you can't stop in the middle of a river).
Therefore it should be treated as if it was a building that contains friends (see FAQ1).
The end result is that the unit should cross the river if its retire move takes it at least half way across AND if it is allowed to do so .... which means that it can't cross if the river is a surging torrent, and can only cross a shoulder high river if it is led by a commander. It the unit doesn't reach half-way across, or is not alllowed to cross it will halt 1MU from the obstruction. (or closer it it starts within 1MU).
Unless the river is ankle deep or dried up the retiring unit will face the direction moved.

[bahdahbum]

no one said reality was as easy as our pretend battlefields are.
that must have been why Wellington chose it to make his stand against Napoleon. When you read the historical actions, you have to wonder why anyone would want to even attempt half the stuff they had to go through. I think our predecessors were much tougher than we are today. Advancing into grape shot anyone???

Quatre-Bras is a difficult battlefield . And Wellington had nothing to do with the choice . He was "humbugged" by Napoleon who choose to go trough Charleroi and not as expected Mons . It was Constant de Rebecque who choose the terrain . Ney would have pushed trough if he had time and began a bit earlier ( an hour or so ...)would have been enough and history would be very different .

War is war and at that time well you did what you had to do . Every war has it's massacres , even our dear modern famous chirugical war .

Speaking of grap shot , I will check something latter . It seems to me that in 90% of the army list we are allowed almost 2 or 3 times what they really had as artillery, except for the Russians and perhaps the french 1812 .

[LeslieMitchell]

Unless the river is ankle deep or dried up the retiring unit will face the direction moved.

does this mean you can stop in an ankle deep or dried up river as well?

As it has no effect on movement.

[terrys]

does this mean you can stop in an ankle deep or dried up river as well?

As it has no effect on movement.

As stated o n page 79:
"A dried up river is counted as a gulley for it's entire length." (i.e. is rough ground)
"A dried up stream is ignored for all purposes."
A unit can therefore move through both of these as rough and open terrain respectively.
An ankle deep river is still a river (and an obstacle), therefore a unit cannot stop on the middle of it.

[LeslieMitchell]

does this mean you can stop in an ankle deep or dried up river as well?

As it has no effect on movement.

As stated o n page 79:
"A dried up river is counted as a gulley for it's entire length." (i.e. is rough ground)
"A dried up stream is ignored for all purposes."
A unit can therefore move through both of these as rough and open terrain respectively.
An ankle deep river is still a river (and an obstacle), therefore a unit cannot stop on the middle of it.

Thanks