Shooting casualty removal and replacement

[batesmotel]

In a game a couple days ago, I had a longbow until where the right most file was a single rank. Due to failing a death roll from shooting I needed to remove a base and the base closest to the enemy was the right most file due to the angle of the shooters to my front. The rules (p. 116) say: "Other bases of the battle group shuffle up to maintain contiguity and fill vacated front rank positions." (Additional stipulations based on front rank close combat positions don't apply since the longbow battle group is not in close combat.) I interpret "shuffle up" as meaning that a rear rank stand directly behind one that was removed would be moved to the front rank. My opponent felt that it meant that any available rear rank stand must be moved to occupy the vacated position if any are available.

Since there is no second rank behind the right most stand that was removed, must a rear rank stand from another file be moved to fill that front rank position or may the group just remove the right most stand and then have reduced frontage. (The longbowmen were in the ZOC of the opposing shooters so could not reduce frontage as a normal move.)

Chris

[bbotus]

As you say, I also can't find anything in the rules to cover shooting lose of stand for this instance. I don't think they expected much base lose from shooting and even say so on page 80. So you have a referee call situation.

The rules generally do not allow you to lose a base to the disadvantage of the enemy. You lose the farthest base if the enemy are in contact with routers and a rear base replaces a base lost in close combat. So, personally, in the spirit of the rules, I'd require you to fill in the front rank and not allow you to get out of the ZOC of the enemy. That would be a little bit of a cheesy way to get out of a ZOC.

Also, if your unit was 8 bases set up as 3,3,2

ABC
xxx
xx- where '-' is no base

Now if you lost base C, you'd have to end in a 3,3,1 formation or it would be illegal. Not really any different from:

ABC
x--

[philqw78]

base removal
Other bases of the BG shuffle up to replace vacated front rank positions, so if a position is vacated it is filled.

[batesmotel]

I had my longbows deployed with 4 in the front rank and 2 in the rear to get the maximum bases firing:

LLLL
-LL-

where - is no base. So removing the right most base leaves a legal formation:

LLL
-LL

The wording for the case where a non-overlap front rank position in combat is vacated says: "Non-front rank bases must be used if any are available, and can be from any part of the battle group." This seems much more general than the "shuffle up" wording for the case of non close combat positions. e.g. If my longbows lost a further base in the 3+2 formation, they should end up in:

LLL
-L-

because the rear rank stand in the right most file would "shuffle up" to fill the front rank position.

Chris

[bbotus]

The words on page 116 do say, "Other bases of the BG immediately shuffle up to retain contiguity and fill vacated front rank positions". So it does specifically say to fill front rank positions. The subsequent description of what to do in close combat seems to muddy the issue a bit since it doesn't spell out anything for shooting loses. But, 'fill vacated front rank positions' is pretty specific for all types of base loses - shooting or close combat.

My interpretation is that you must keep 4 bases in the front rank and go to 4,1 not 3,2.

[iversonjm]

Clearly this is just another example of Chris attempting to leverage an advantage over a hapless innocent through bizarre rule interpretations.

Chris, you should be ashamed.

[philqw78]

I had my longbows deployed with 4 in the front rank and 2 in the rear to get the maximum bases firing:

LLLL
-LL-

where - is no base. So removing the right most base leaves a legal formation:

LLL
-LL

The wording for the case where a non-overlap front rank position in combat is vacated says: "Non-front rank bases must be used if any are available, and can be from any part of the battle group." This seems much more general than the "shuffle up" wording for the case of non close combat positions. e.g. If my longbows lost a further base in the 3+2 formation, they should end up in:

LLL
-L-

because the rear rank stand in the right most file would "shuffle up" to fill the front rank position.

Chris

Matt is right, this is utter rubbish. Vacated front rank positions are immediately filled by rear rank bases

[batesmotel]

Clearly this is just another example of Chris attempting to leverage an advantage over a hapless innocent through bizarre rule interpretations.

Chris, you should be ashamed.

Yes, indeed. Poor, Matt, the hapless innocent. Hope all your opponents at Britcon will be less willing to unfairly exploit you than I am

Chris

[philqw78]

Yes, indeed. Poor, Matt, the hapless innocent. Hope all your opponents at Britcon will be less willing to unfairly exploit you than I am

Chris

Oh, Matt was the easy b'stard. Serves him right.

[iversonjm]

Yes, indeed. Poor, Matt, the hapless innocent. Hope all your opponents at Britcon will be less willing to unfairly exploit you than I am

Chris

Oh, Matt was the easy b'stard. Serves him right.

What? And me as innocent and pure as the driven snow. I get no respect I tells ya.

[batesmotel]

Yes, indeed. Poor, Matt, the hapless innocent. Hope all your opponents at Britcon will be less willing to unfairly exploit you than I am

Chris

Oh, Matt was the easy b'stard. Serves him right.

What? And me as innocent and pure as the driven snow. I get no respect I tells ya.

Just ask any shark for respect. I understand professional courtesy would apply then

Chris