Open terrain POAs

[hazelbark]

I don't think FOG N has the same definiation for open as the other FOG books. (i.e. the base claiming the POA or causing the CT modifer must be in open)

So we had a situation as follows

Cuirass in rough
charged and hit a square just outside the rough.
So the cuirass lost dice for being disorderd in the rough.
But we decided the POA - for "Infantry facing Shock Cavalry. Only in open terrain" applied

Any one disagree with how we did it?
Anyone see rules that explicitly address this situation? The terrain effects section is under firing but you can extrapolate from there. Anything else?

[Blathergut]

Sounds right to me. Perhaps panda2 will come to the rescue!

[AndyClaxton]

Sound right to me as well.

The square is not in the rough therefore the modifier doesn't apply.

Andy

[panda2]

I'm not sure that there's much I can add. I would agree with the way Hazelbark played it, if only because in situations where it is the position of the target that's important to getting a positive or negative POA its normally made clear in the third column of the table (i.e. POAs for cavalry vs infantry and/or artillery). In this case it isn't specified, so I'd be inclined to conclude that its the position of the unit receiving the POA. However, I more than half expect that Terry will return from holiday and explain that wasn't his and Mike's intention!

On the cohesion loss for being in terrain, its worth noting that on p.58 it states that:

"Non-Skirmishers in unfavourable terrain fight as one cohesion level lower."

No distinction is made between the different levels of disordering effect. This seems to contradict the statements in the table on p.36, but, if it is the rule, it might explain why the text on the effects of being partially in or out of terrain only mentions firing, since it would not be relevent to close combat as the reduction is always one level.

Finally, a couple of things I noticed when checking the rules that I hadn't realised before. First, cavalry don't get a positive POA fighting against infantry not in square or artillery if the target is in "cover" (p.58). Secondly, cavalry in march column aren't disordered by rough terrain (p.36). I only mention these because I recall someone asking a couple of months ago why infantry "occupying" buildings were said to be in cover when they couldn't be fired at (except for artillery). However, it now seems that the cover could be relevant to fighting cavalry moving in column along a road through a building (which counts as rough terrain).

Andy D

[terrys]

Cuirass in rough
charged and hit a square just outside the rough.
So the cuirass lost dice for being disorderd in the rough.
But we decided the POA - for "Infantry facing Shock Cavalry. Only in open terrain" applied

You played it correctly.

You just need to visualise what would be happening.
The cavalry should get the reduction because they can't get a good charge in after they leave the terrain. If the infantry were firther back from the terrain (2 base depths) the cavalry would have time to gain some impetuous before hitting the infantry.

After contact the cavalry will be riding aroung the squares rather than standing fighting them in a straight line, so the fact that the infantry are in open terrain would still give them the same problems with regard to their fighting them.

[gelin]

But does the shock capability apply against squares; IIRC it is not applied against squares

[terrys]

But does the shock capability apply against squares; IIRC it is not applied against squares

Infantry in square will get the -POA. When cavalry fight squares all the infantry have to do is to avoid breaking.
Reducing the damge given to the cavalry is not very relevent except that cuirassiers are more likely to be able to pass through the squares since are likely to take fewer casualties.