Magic Proposal

[Zephyr40k]

So how to add magic to the FoG rules? My idea is to go as minimalist as possible while still making it 'magical.'

As such, Mages would work as such:

• - Treat Mage bases as Commander bases in terms of movement, visibility, joining units, and other related rules. No battlegroup may have more than one"personality" stand join it at a time.
  - However, Mages are not commanders. They spend all their time studying arcana, not how to command troops in the battlefield. As such, they do not have a command aura or any other effects of the standard commander.

What they do do, depends on their type. The types of mage are categorized by their "color."

White magic: the magic of defense and healing. When embedded in a unit, a 'white' mage upgrades that unit's Armor rating by one rank ("protected" to "armored," etc). Also it allows the battlegroup to re-roll the die on one Death roll per turn. If not embedded in a unit, a 'white' mage may upgrade one friendly unit's "disorder" status by one rating (range, say 6 MU).

Black magic: the magic of curses, hexes, and inflictions. When embedded in a unit, a 'black' mage reduces the quality rating of all enemy battlegroups in base contact (not overlap-only) with the BG the mage is embedded within. When not embedded, the 'black' mage may lower the disorder status of one enemy unit within 6 MU per turn.

Green magic: the magic of nature. When embedded within a unit, the 'green' mage allows the BG to treat the terrain like it is one "category" of terrain easier. When not embedded within a unit, the 'green' mage can target any one enemy unit within 6 MU that is within any terrain feature; that BG is automatically Disordered until the end of the turn.

Blue magic: the magic of illusion and motion. When embedded in a unit, the 'blue' mage allows the player to add or subtract 1 or 2 to the BG's variable move roll. Also allows the BG to re-roll a failed CMT. When not embedded in a unit, the 'blue' mage may swap any two friendly BG's locations as long as (a) both BGs are within 6" of the mage, (b) no enemy units are within 6" of either friendly BG or the mage, (c) at least one of the friendly BGs is currently not visible to any enemy unit. Place the BGs as per placing an ambushing unit.

Red magic: the magic of fire and destruction. When embedded in a unit, the 'red' mage upgrades the BG' weapons (sets them to flaming) and therefore gives the BG a +1 POA vs. any unit in base contact, in both Impact and Melee phase. When not embedded, the 'red' mage may fire as if it was a light artillery unit once per turn, during the ranged combat phase.

What do you think? Too crazy?

[SirGarnet]

Having several flavors of mage providing a straight buff or debuff when attached is nice and straightforward, but some of those effects mentioned would I think have too great and potentially decisive an effect to count as minimalist. They are effects that one could build one's tactics around, which is attractive from a strategist's perspective, but for matching armies against historical lists a fair points balance is going to be a challenge.

There is also the question of which magics are available to each army, and which ones are simply better than others - a good result if it matches the "fantasy historical" background involved, but in non-scenario play there would be calls for balance - difficult with effects that are quite different and quite substantive in their tactical effects.

In the search for minimalism, the Minimalist Magic Reroll suggestion in an earlier post below serves that purpose and has the advantage of requiring some interesting tactical decisionmaking in practice and scaling results consistently by fitting within the quality reroll system (which is much smoother than straight modifiers).

[Zephyr40k]

Right.. my idea was to model mages on FoG commanders, who have two separate effects depending on if they are embedded in a unit or not. But yes, what I have here could be unbalancing, it would have to be tested extensively. Or throttled back.

OK so 'throttling back' the Magic idea to have it consist of, basically, re-rolls... where is that? Am looking for the posting you reference and am not finding it. Would it basically be, when there's a mage embedded with the unit, you would have a better quality re-roll? The thing is, that's pretty darn close to what commanders do in FoG already.

[SirGarnet]

The thread: viewtopic.php?f=71&t=9847

(By the way, the format is that suggested in the Yahoo FOG Fantasy group for rules mods - trying to be really clear about what exactly happens when.)

[ravenflight]

Black magic: the magic of curses, hexes, and inflictions. When embedded in a unit, a 'black' mage reduces the quality rating of all enemy battlegroups in base contact (not overlap-only) with the BG the mage is embedded within. When not embedded, the 'black' mage may lower the disorder status of one enemy unit within 6 MU per turn.

I think most of your ideas are fine, but points costs would need to be worked out and that isn't going to be easy. The above I find way too powerful. Consider that a BG that is disrupted is most likely going to be destroyed.

A BG of Impact foot swordsmen with a Black mage goes up against a BG of Pike. The Pike don't get their 'steady' rating, the impact foot are most likely going to win the combat. In melee, the impact foot sword get their swordsmen and the Pike (who may be fragged by this point - even though they are actually only disrupted) and probably get overlaps as well.

It would spell (pardon the pun) the end of units that require cohesion to be an effective fighting force.

If you wanted this kind of magic, what you COULD do is consider the unit to have received 1 extra hit for morale purposes only. Thus, in the above example the pike and impact foot may have had an even combat (2 hits each), but the pike have to test as if they'd received 3 hits for morale purposes (death roll is still ok - they received equal hits so get +2 and don't have to do a death roll) but have to take a cohesion test... which they at least have a chance of passing.

I would imagine that any mage doing this sort of magic attached to am BG would have the same risk of being killed as a commander fighting in the front rank.

[Zephyr40k]

Black magic: the magic of curses, hexes, and inflictions. When embedded in a unit, a 'black' mage reduces the quality rating of all enemy battlegroups in base contact (not overlap-only) with the BG the mage is embedded within. When not embedded, the 'black' mage may lower the disorder status of one enemy unit within 6 MU per turn.

If you wanted this kind of magic, what you COULD do is consider the unit to have received 1 extra hit for morale purposes only. Thus, in the above example the pike and impact foot may have had an even combat (2 hits each), but the pike have to test as if they'd received 3 hits for morale purposes (death roll is still ok - they received equal hits so get +2 and don't have to do a death roll) but have to take a cohesion test... which they at least have a chance of passing.

That's an excellent idea. I agree on retrospect, insta-disruptions would be pretty overpowered. I like your idea instead. It's still powerful and interesting without being overwhelming. And I'm thinking any personality that can do this would be priced similar to a IC.

I would imagine that any mage doing this sort of magic attached to am BG would have the same risk of being killed as a commander fighting in the front rank.

Definitely.

[eldiablito]

Just a thought...

A more powerful version for black magic, but not quite as evil as auto disruption;
1 die in shooting automatically
If successful, then the enemy BG MUST take a cohesion test, no matter the number of bases.
Perhaps the Mage could shoot, even in combat (but only against the unit they are fighting).

Here is another way to handle mages. Perhaps the don't normally get a cmd radius? Perhaps they only can issue commands to units they are physically attached to?

[MatthewB]

Here is another way to handle mages. Perhaps the don't normally get a cmd radius? Perhaps they only can issue commands to units they are physically attached to?

This is an issue I still struggle with:

Are Mages Commanders, or can Mages be Commanders?

The same thing with Heroes.

I know that in the realm with which I am most familiar (Middle-earth), this is often the case in both situations.

Mages often are Commanders/Generals/Leaders (The Witch King - all over Angmar, Rhûdaur, Cardolan, and Arthedain; Khamûl at Dol Goldur; Sauron at Dol Goldur - earlier than the WotR; Saruman, Gandalf; and many of the Elves and Bad-guys of the First Age (to say nothing of the Ring-wraiths before Númenóre got into the action)).

As are Heroes (Aragorn; Théoden - or his son as he Fords of Isen; Brand II; Dain Ironfoot; Thorin Oakenshield; Éomer; etc...)

So magic needs to be something that doesn't work like modern technology, which is pretty much what it is in other game systems.