Joe v. Morris Round II (Joe's AAR)

[Morris]

Yes ,Joe chose sealion ! Since I acknowledge of the 40 max morale lose after losing Britain , I became quite worry about a sucessful sealion ! it seems difficult to defend a sealion after a such early Paris fall . UK lost many troops in France & low income before Egypt & Irac join the war . Maybe we will lost England & Scotland before 1941 .After 40 max morale loss , Axis can take middle east without any difficult before USSR join the war in 1942 ! Nice Axis strategy , will it be another Europe fortress ! It will be a long time for Allies to suffer . Let's see what will happen .

[Crazygunner1]

Was à bit surprized that you didn't send à tank in the first transports? Since you already got à fothold ashore shouldnt be any trouble landing it:)

[Peter Stauffenberg]

Morris will lose England for sure, but if he can delay the fall for as long as possible it can influence the Axis build-up for Barbarossa. So Morris has a lot to fight for. Losing the Royal Navy is probably not worth it since Joerock will get ashore in force for sure. Staying away from the Luftwaffe fighter range seems to be a good idea. If the Royal Air Force can cover the UK units that can only be reached by the Luftwaffe bombers then the Germans will lose bomber steps if they bombard these units.

A problem for Britain now is that the manpower level is below 75% so all units will get -1 quality. Repairing losses in England means that units already there will drop in quality too. So a bloody war in England means the UK will struggle with manpower level for a long time.

Joe is patient and will probably just get enough troops across to quickly secure London and then he will slowly get to Liverpool. So I don't expect Joe to risk his navy by trying to invade several places to gain time.

By doing so I predict that Joe wants to do a May 1941 Barbarossa with all his best units in the east. So maybe Morris can try to get the Royal Air Force to Northern Ireland once they can't hold in England anymore. That should tie up some Luftwaffe fighters to England. Morris can use Northern Ireland as a base to liberate England later. Scapa Flow is also important to keep. If Morris can keep some garrisons alive in Scapa Flow and Northern Ireland he can reduce the morale loss for the UK forces.

It will be very interesting to see how Joe will take England and how Morris will defend. I always struggle with Sealion myself so I'm watching to learn some tricks from the best players.

[richardsd]

Turn 12 – April 8, 1940

After thinking about it for awhile, I decided to go for Sea Lion. From what I know about Morris, he will be a huge pain in the rear with the Western Allies in 1941-42 if I don’t do something about them now. Paris fell early, the British lost some units in France, and England looks poorly defended. It seems like the perfect opportunity for Sea Lion. Morris tells me that he is expecting this, but then most people probably would at this stage. I do not think he is in position to defeat a well-executed Sea Lion attempt.

Still, I will be cautious. I will try to land in only a narrow area, making sure to protect my ships and transports from enemy naval assault. The RN is Morris’s most potent weapon at this point, though to use it he will have to venture into Axis air cover. I wish my sub reinforcements were ready, but unfortunately they are still under construction. Still, I am confident about my ability to defeat the RN if it comes to a major battle.

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why did you pick that hex for the Para, if he moves to block you the Para won't be able to move to allow another unit to land or are you sure that two tacs a para and an ampibious assualt will get you ashore?

I would have been tempted to land 1 hex west to make it really difficult for him to stop you, you can make it impossible for him if you block the port

[Morris]

Morris will lose England for sure, but if he can delay the fall for as long as possible it can influence the Axis build-up for Barbarossa. So Morris has a lot to fight for. Losing the Royal Navy is probably not worth it since Joerock will get ashore in force for sure. Staying away from the Luftwaffe fighter range seems to be a good idea. If the Royal Air Force can cover the UK units that can only be reached by the Luftwaffe bombers then the Germans will lose bomber steps if they bombard these units.

A problem for Britain now is that the manpower level is below 75% so all units will get -1 quality. Repairing losses in England means that units already there will drop in quality too. So a bloody war in England means the UK will struggle with manpower level for a long time.

Joe is patient and will probably just get enough troops across to quickly secure London and then he will slowly get to Liverpool. So I don't expect Joe to risk his navy by trying to invade several places to gain time.

By doing so I predict that Joe wants to do a May 1941 Barbarossa with all his best units in the east. So maybe Morris can try to get the Royal Air Force to Northern Ireland once they can't hold in England anymore. That should tie up some Luftwaffe fighters to England. Morris can use Northern Ireland as a base to liberate England later. Scapa Flow is also important to keep. If Morris can keep some garrisons alive in Scapa Flow and Northern Ireland he can reduce the morale loss for the UK forces.

It will be very interesting to see how Joe will take England and how Morris will defend. I always struggle with Sealion myself so I'm watching to learn some tricks from the best players.

Yes , you are quite right sir ! I will lose not only England but also Scotland & Northern Ireland if Axis really want to take it . At present Uk has no manpower & low pp income . & the convoy is also poor .

[joerock22]

Turn 13 – April 28, 1940

I’m surprised—no suicidal charge by the entire RN. Morris did send in a couple DDs, one of which got 4:1 results against my sub. We wipe it off the map to even the score and bomb the other one hiding in port. No attempt was made to block the landings; that I did expect.

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[Morris]

Turn 13 – April 28, 1940

I’m surprised—no suicidal charge by the entire RN. Morris did send in a couple DDs, one of which got 4:1 results against my sub. We wipe it off the map to even the score and bomb the other one hiding in port. No attempt was made to block the landings; that I did expect.

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I said we will play something fresh &I have to . Otherwise ,I will lose all hope of victory . At present , Sealion is invincible for me .

[Peter Stauffenberg]

I guess Joerock is selecting what he posts in this AAR since Morris is allowed to watch here as well. So I have a feeling we see screenshots that are a few turns old so Morris can't benefit from what he sees.

It's interesting to see that Joerock is able to do an effective Sealion without building more naval units to support the invasion. Or at least the naval units haven't arrived yet.

The advance will be slow since it can only move from the Dover area towards Southampton and London, but once the armor and mech units are ashore then nothing can stop him. Both cities are within range of the Luftwaffe cities.

Morris could probably put garrisons as stumbling blocks adjacent to the invasion area so Joe can't move from beachhead to free up room for more units. That means Joe will have to attack the garrisons and force retreats to advance. This means the tactical bombers will bombard garrisons to get them to orange or red efficiency instead of the units in Southampton and London.

[joerock22]

I guess Joerock is selecting what he posts in this AAR since Morris is allowed to watch here as well. So I have a feeling we see screenshots that are a few turns old so Morris can't benefit from what he sees.

Morris could probably put garrisons as stumbling blocks adjacent to the invasion area so Joe can't move from beachhead to free up room for more units. That means Joe will have to attack the garrisons and force retreats to advance. This means the tactical bombers will bombard garrisons to get them to orange or red efficiency instead of the units in Southampton and London.

Yes, the screenshots are on average 2-3 turns old. And I'm not sharing my thoughts on overall strategy.

I was aware of the potential for stumbling block garrisons, but Morris has not used that tactic thus far.

[joerock22]

Turn 14 – May 18, 1940

Well, Morris made more attacks with his navy, getting good results with all of them. At this point I should just be glad my BB was not sunk. The KM sinks another DD in response, but I had better capture a city soon. Sub reinforcements cannot arrive fast enough.

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[Crazygunner1]

Wont that paratrooper block your way for your mech since they can't move in zone of control without city supply?

[joerock22]

Wont that paratrooper block your way for your mech since they can't move in zone of control without city supply?

You are right, of course. I wish I had thought of that, but I missed it.

[Morris]

It's interesting to see that Joerock is able to do an effective Sealion without building more naval units to support the invasion. Or at least the naval units haven't arrived yet.

I don't think Joe was planning to sealion at the beginning of this pbem . He got this idea only after the early Paris fall & UK lost many units in France . But I think there are more subs coming out in a few turns .

[joerock22]

Turn 15 – June 7, 1940

Our first real opportunity to capture a supply source…

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I suppose now is a good time to mention my initial Goal #2 – Sea Lion in 1940. I was planning for this from the beginning, and tailored my builds to fit this strategy. As you can see, a 4th sub arrived this turn, when Sea Lion would be heating up in a normal game. I also made sure to invest heavily in German air. Research is lagging behind as a result, but I am investing all available PPs into bringing it up to speed.

(it's kind of funny--I already had this typed here, but it's perfect timing to respond to Morris's last post)

[rkr1958]

Joe,

Very impressive! I can't even pull off a successful Sea Lion against myself in a hotseat game; even when I plan for it from the very beginning. If you have time I'd like to see the blueprint of your Sea Lion strategy from the very start. I assume that to have any real chance you have to Blitz France. Do you have a date by which France must fall or you abort? How would your Sea Lion blueprint vary against a very aggressive player (e.g., Morris) versus a more conservative and cautious player (e.g., me)? Or against someone like me after a successful and early Blitz of France would you think it'd be better to reject the armistice, activate Spain and close the Med?

By the way; I think we've all really done a fantastic job at balancing GS against a variety of believable axis strategies. That is: (1) historical, (2) Sea Lion, (3) Close the Med, (4) Fortress Europa. And probably others we haven't thought of yet. I'm so excited and proud of what we've all accomplished with GS!

[joerock22]

Joe,

Very impressive! I can't even pull off a successful Sea Lion against myself in a hotseat game; even when I plan for it from the very beginning. If you have time I'd like to see the blueprint of your Sea Lion strategy from the very start. I assume that to have any real chance you have to Blitz France. Do you have a date by which France must fall or you abort? How would your Sea Lion blueprint vary against a very aggressive player (e.g., Morris) versus a more conservative and cautious player (e.g., me)? Or against someone like me after a successful and early Blitz of France would you think it'd be better to reject the armistice, activate Spain and close the Med?

Well, France must fall early. June is probably the latest I would try it. My build strategy is to put labs on hold and get 1 more fighter, 2 more Tacs, and 2 more subs ASAP. Only then do I build my first lab. If I wasn't planning for Sea Lion, I would delay the subs and build labs sooner.

The Sea Lion defense strategy is very important. In a recent game against another good opponent, France fell in April or May and I immediately moved on to Sea Lion. The British player had purchased only garrisons for defense and had a line of them along the southern/eastern coast of England. He could double the line wherever I tried to land. It's virtually impossible to do a successful Sea Lion against a defense like this, because German corps transports have weak amphibious attack early game. His only weakness was the small peninsula south of London--he failed to garrison this, and I was able to land a para. This got me a beachhead and guaranteed attack by land, which made all the difference. That said, even though Sea Lion was successful, it took me until early 1941 to subdue the island (partially due to bad luck with the weather). So I have to do a 1942 Barbarossa.

Morris did the opposite--he gambled everything on his early invasion of Belgium, believing this would result in a late fall of France and elimnate the possibility of Sea Lion. When that failed, he practically gave me England without a fight. Still, my planning and build strategy were important. I was ready when the opportunity for Sea Lion presented itself (except for the extra subs not being quite ready yet).

In another of my games, my opponent thought about Sea Lion but then called it off. Instead, he went for the close the Med strategy. It's now winter 1942-43 and things are getting bloody in Russia. Could he have succeeded with Sea Lion? Perhaps. I had plenty of troops so it would have been tough, especially since I believe he was only in position to launch in late June or July.

My impressions:
- If the British build all-out toward preventing Sea Lion, and France lasts until May or June, the Allies can stop even a determined Sea Lion attempt
- If the British try to do anything else (large BEF, building labs, etc.), then that leaves the door open for the Germans
- British defense strategy plays a huge role in the success or failure of Sea Lion
- German initial planning plays a role as well (are your builds ready when the time comes?)
- Even if Sea Lion is successful, the British can invest enough troops and PPs into England to make the Germans seriously consider a 1942 Barbarossa, if not outright forcing them into it

[rkr1958]

My impressions:
- If the British build all-out toward preventing Sea Lion, and France lasts until May or June, the Allies can stop even a determined Sea Lion attempt
- If the British try to do anything else (large BEF, building labs, etc.), then that leaves the door open for the Germans
- British defense strategy plays a huge role in the success or failure of Sea Lion
- German initial planning plays a role as well (are your builds ready when the time comes?)
- Even if Sea Lion is successful, the British can invest enough troops and PPs into England to make the Germans seriously consider a 1942 Barbarossa, if not outright forcing them into it

Joe, Thanks.

"- If the British try to do anything else (large BEF, building labs, etc.), then that leaves the door open for the Germans"

I find this very interesting. One thing I like to do as the allies is to maximize UK lab builds; especially early in the game. But; you're saying that this strategy plays into an axis Sea Lion strategy. However; if you forgo building labs to prepare for a Sea Lion defense and it doesn't happen then you've hurt yourself by delaying research. So as the allied player do you delay building your first UK lab to see whether or not the axis Blitz? If they don't then do you maximize your lab builds? If they do, what then do you do? Do you build up a PP reserve for the Brits and then wait and see if France does indeed fall early? And then spend accordingly?

[Cybvep]

The UK has a very low MP in 1939. It doesn't seem prudent to build many units with -1 quality, but if you are not building labs, what are you doing with all the PPs? Are you storing them?

[pk867]

I have been on the receiving end of many Sealion's attempted. One or two were successful the others were beaten back.

I never send UK forces to France. I have not seen a benefit except maybe one turn at most.

As the UK player depending on the Axis moves i.e.. an early blitz in 39' or an early blitz in 40 or a Sitzkrieg.

A Blitz in 39' I will build 2 labs and save the PP's, if 1940 early blitz maybe 3 or 4 labs and save, and if a Sitzkreig maybe 5 and I will sell back two if France falls early.

I always time the fleet to be in the British Isles area when performing escort duty in case Sealion preparations are in progress.. ie early FoF and troops amassing at the ports.

If it is a feint, then be prepared, but plan accordingly.

[joerock22]

I think if you want to guarantee saving England, then you need to mostly ignore labs and dip well below 75% manpower. That said, you can still do a good Sea Lion defense if you max out labs, but spend everything else on infantry. That's what I usually do. Just hope that France holds until the summer.