And more questions

Rekila · Post by **Rekila** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:51 pm

Cavalry or cavalry attachments reduce the dice of units with skirmishes at medium range from 3 to 1. A unit of infantry (conscript) with a skirmishes attachment and an artillery attachment is firing at middle range at a unit with a cavalry attachment. Skirmishes + artillery attachments mean only 4 dice reduced to two by the cavalry. This two counts as one artillery (drilled not reroll) and one infantry (conscripts reroll 6) or can we forget the skirmishes (fire at medium range is not mandatory, so they can rest for a while) and fire only the 2 dice (without reroll) for the artillery attachment.

A unit in extended line is broken, must it change to tactical before moving or moves as an extended line.

A large unit in extended line contacted an enemy unit in flank in the assault phase but with only one extreme base. It has other enemies at close range, do it fires at them as a large and a small unit?

Two different unit assaults the same unit in extended line, one assault succeeds but the other is first stopped by defensive fire and in the fire phase the assaulting unit is broken. Must the unit in contact make a cohesion test before combat for broken friends passing at less than 4MU.

A unit of Irregular cavalry charges the flank of an artillery unit that has a friend infantry unit within 2MU. The Artillery is abandoned. Is that treated like an evade and the cavalry continues his assault move? In that case it will contact frontally the infantry without having pass CMT for assaulting frontally steady units. Must it stop, make contact of pass a CMT now?

Enemy guns can’t be captured (and reused) right?

An irregular light cavalry unit in tactical formation (i.e two ranks) can evade?

As the combat phase is after the movement phase, the active player can move units in the movement phase to give flank and rear support to assaulting units jet in contact?

After a heavy cavalry combat one unit is wavering and the other disordered, so the first must retire as an outcome move, it moves 5MU and the other pursuits, as the pursing unit will contact again the wavering unit, is that treated like a new assault? So the wavering unit must pass a cohesion test or be broken. Can other friend unit intercept?

Is the pursuing move the same as a normal move? Are Pursing moves and Outcome moves affected by terrain?

A unit broke in the firing phase, it must move 4MU but has a friend unit 1MU behind, the unit can’t be bypassed so it must be pass trough. As the unit is of a different division the broken unit must pass a CMT, or stop in front of the friend unit?

Broken units that reach the border of the table must stop there or do they leave?

A general that is with a unit when it is broken, must move with it? It so can leave the unit in the following phase or must stay with the broken unit until it rallies or is destroyed?

If a division has two or more infantry broken units, only one could try to rally, right? Are the other(s) automatically destroyed?

Well we are about to finish our learning first game so thanks to all for your patience and help. My army is now about to be destroyed by the French! So that will be the end, for the moment at least. (In the end my poor Hanoverians never reached the buildings so we haven’t the opportunity to use those rules in practice, but FAQ1 seems very clear, thanks)

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:45 pm

will try to answer your questions, to make it easier in future it helps to leave a space between each question, kind of hard to sort out each one when they are all together like that.

First of all all attachments are treated as drilled, regardless of the units elan that they are attached to. So in your first question the skirmisher attachment (not the inherent skirmishers with the unit if it was light infantry) would not shoot as conscripts so no rerolls.
However shooting at med is optional, only close range shooting is mandatory so you can leave the skirmish fire out if you wish.

Broken units just rout so extended line routs as a really long unit and is more likely to burst through friends as they will find it harder to shift to avoid any one out back.

Artillery abandoning the guns is an outcome move and is the same as an evade. The cavalry carries on for the full charge move hitting any other target in range and within 2 MU either side of the initial charge move. In this case they go into the infantry. Its the old they didn't see the square at first and now that they do its too late to stop so....

You can not capture and reuse enemy artillery. The guns are treated as open ground while abandoned. Their previous owner may attempt to recover them. Only when the recovery attempt is made will you roll to see if you still have guns or they are lost.

I believe irregular units in 2 ranks can evade, might be in the errata.

You can move friendly units into a position where they can provide flank or rear support to units that assaulted this turn. They have to be in the proper position during the combat phase to count as support.

After a combat if the pursuer will catch a retiring wavering enemy, it is treated as a charge for outcome move purposes. In this case the retiring cavalry will have to test for being charged and might break. Pursuing units that contact enemy in the first half of the pursuit move will get a second combat this turn. If contact is made after 1/2 of the pursuit move the combat will be resolved next turn. Either way both units are assumed to be in contact so no defensive fire or intercepts are allowed. Intercepts only occur in the assault phase.

Pursuit and outcome moves are affected by terrain, as far as I know.

Routers who burst through friends will cause the burst through unit to take a cohesion test. In your example yes since they are from different divisions the rear unit must test. Routers who can not pass through the other unit will stop in front of them. If they have enough movement so the front base can clear the rear of the burst through unit they will move so the back of their rear base is touching the other units rear edge. if there is not enough room behind the burst through friends the routers stay put in front.

Broken units that reach the table edge and have movement left will turn and run along the table edge. They get to stay on table and a rally attempt can be made.

A general with a broken unit must remain with the unit during their rout. Attached generals are removed once the unit has broken so he does not rout with them. During the recovery phase generals get to move before rally attempts are made so he can move away from the broken unit if he wishes, and will still be in rally range.
Generals can only move during your own turn, so if your unit broke in an enemy phase your general could move freely away from the broken unit during your turn.

Division commanders can only rally units in their own division. Corps commanders can attempt to rally any units in the army, within their own corps. (unlikely we will see too many multi corps games but...) So you could attempt to rally both units if you could get both commanders in range. Otherwise you can only attempt to rally the one, you only get one chance regardless if you have two generals in range of the routers, and you need to roll a 6. Infantry or artillery that fail to rally are destroyed.
Don't forget that infantry units that are broken lose their attachments except for skirmish attachments, and once rallied they are spent (remove a base). A spent infantry unit that breaks a second time is destroyed, no second rally attempt for them.

I bet the Frenchies used weighted dice against you, can't trust a French army!!!

Blathergut · Post by **Blathergut** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:16 pm

Even evading/routing through friends (other than artillery or skirmishers) causes the friends to take a CMT.

Rekila · Post by **Rekila** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:24 am

Well I have Edit it now, (better late than never, as we say here) and let me clarify one question.
A cavalry unit charged by cavalry must or can counter-charge? Because if it must, that’s a great disadvantage for the non-active player as the active player can move other units in support before combat. In our game both sides have various cavalry units in a parallel line in front of each other but the active player assault with only one, so after the counter-charge(4MU) the defender unit becomes isolated. Interceptions didn’t help as you can’t intercept units moving in the Movement Phase, supporting area is only at close range (2MU) so when you counter-charge more than 2MU the support is lost.
Thanks again, as it’s our first game we make a lot of tactical blunders. I was especially brilliant! A good thing as it teach us that the game is more subtle that it looks initially.

BrettPT · Post by **BrettPT** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:50 am

generally, Cavalry must countercharge.

You are correct, this can give advantages to the phasing player who might be able to draw enemy units away from their supports, while moving supporting units into place themselves in the movement phase before combat. The phasing player also 'wins' draws in combat.

So hit him before he hits you!

KendallB · Post by **KendallB** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:12 am

A way around your countercharging problem is to have rear support units not more than 2MU from the leading unit. Rear support reduces your opponent's dice which is going to make it harder to break your unit.

terrys · Post by **terrys** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:32 pm

A way around your countercharging problem is to have rear support units not more than 2MU from the leading unit. Rear support reduces your opponent's dice which is going to make it harder to break your unit.

Another way around this problem is to remember that an intercepting unit can wheel (up to 2MU) before they make the intercept move.....Therefore any adjacent units can intercept the charging unit.

panda2 · Post by **panda2** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:58 pm

I would agree with KendallB. Getting rear support as the defender is nearly always straight forward, if you make sure the supporting unit is within 2 MUs of the 2 units being supported. It's only difficult when the attacking units come from two different directions. However, even then its generally possible if you are careful (you will have had the last move so can make sure everythings in the right place).

Flank support is more difficult for the defender. Unless the two front lines are within 4 MU at the begining of the assault phase the countercharge will mean the attacking unit isn't with within the support area of the flanking unit. However, depending on the situation it may still be possible to achieve this using intercepts. For example, the lines are 7 MU apart, the intecepting unit moves 4 MU into a possition where the attacker will hit it. The countercharge moves 3.5MU forward to a position alongside but slightly behind the interceptor. The attacker is moved into contact with the interceptor and is also in the support area of the original target. Not easy to achieve, but often possible.

Andy D

terrys · Post by **terrys** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:32 pm

To answer questions not or only partially answered so far:

However shooting at med is optional, only close range shooting is mandatory so you can leave the skirmish fire out if you wish.

 The rule for artillery attachments at medium range is: “+2 dice for a unit with no skirmishers”
Qualified by “Artillery attachments to a unit of unreformed infantry with no Skirmishers, or attached to any Cavalry unit fires with 2 dice”.
Choosing not to fire your skirmishers at medium range does NOT give your artillery 2 dice at medium range.

A large unit in extended line contacted an enemy unit in flank in the assault phase but with only one extreme base. It has other enemies at close range, do it fires at them as a large and a small unit?

 A unit that charged and successfully contacted its target cannot fire.
“If the result of the firing leaves an assaulting infantry unit not in contact but within firing range it will be allowed to fire as normal during the Firing phase “ (page 32).
And
“A unit is still allowed to fire if it attempted to assault an enemy unit during the Assault Phase but failed to contact due to enemy fire.” (page 48)
Neither of these categorically state that a unit contacting an enemy during the assault phase can’t fire – but that it is certainly implied and it is the intent.

Two different unit assaults the same unit in extended line, one assault succeeds but the other is first stopped by defensive fire and in the fire phase the assaulting unit is broken. Must the unit in contact make a cohesion test before combat for broken friends passing at less than 4MU.

 I’m preparing an FAQ specifically for firing which will cover this in detail. The rules states:
A base of a unit cannot fire or be fired upon if it is in contact with an enemy unit, or if it is another base of the same unit adjacent to and touching such a base (even if corner to corner)” (page48). However the rules don’t tell you what the loss of dice would be. Rather calculating the proportion of dice available with subtractions for support dice allocation etc. I’ll just give the specific number of dice permitted to use.
In general though, no unit will fire with more than 3 dice – so breaking a unit from this situation (from firing) will not be possible.
 In answer to your specific question – Yes, the unit in contact will have to test.

An irregular light cavalry unit in tactical formation (i.e two ranks) can evade?

 Evade if light cavalry in single. (Page 29)
 light cavalry in skirmisher formation must test if they wish to counter-charge non-skirmishing enemy. They will evade if they fail the test. (Page 30)
I will have to add a generic statement of: “Choosing not to take a test with a unit is considered to be the same as failing the test."
They will not be able to evade 'other' skirmishing enemy.

Is the pursuing move the same as a normal move? Are Pursing moves and Outcome moves affected by terrain?

 A pursuit move is treated the same as a retire move “The distance is halved for any part of the retire move that passes through difficult terrain” (Pg 62)

A unit broke in the firing phase, it must move 4MU but has a friend unit 1MU behind, the unit can’t be bypassed so it must be pass trough. As the unit is of a different division the broken unit must pass a CMT, or stop in front of the friend unit?

 All units passed through by retiring units must take a CT. There are no exceptions.
“ A friendly unit passed through by a Broken or retiring unit must take a Cohesion test.” (Page 64)

Broken units that reach the border of the table must stop there or do they leave?

 See “TABLE EDGES” (Page 65)

Rekila · Post by **Rekila** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:42 pm

All is over now (17 to 3) so no more questions for a while. But as I’m boiling whit revenge, we will play again soon. We have jet too much to learn as the game is quite different to the others Fogs but the overall impression was good. Once the basic were mastered, the game looks to be realistic and quick to play. For this battle we use our SYW armies and were surprised how well the rules adapted to the period. Especially the interaction between infantry and cavalry was very realistic, with no clear advantage to either, which was in the past the problem we faced with other rules. We were waiting for ”Emperors and Eagles” before settling for a concrete period for FOG, peninsular or revolutionary wars being the main candidates, so for a while we will have to battle in the SYW. Thanks to all for your help.

gelin · Post by **gelin** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:58 am

KendallB wrote:A way around your countercharging problem is to have rear support units not more than 2MU from the leading unit. Rear support reduces your opponent's dice which is going to make it harder to break your unit.

How can cavalry be supported by infantry and hence reduce the dice of the enemy contacted? IIRC infantry cannot support cavalry

panda2 · Post by **panda2** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:55 am

You are right infantry cannot support cavalry. However, other units of cavalry can support your cavalry. For example, you could have two units of cuirassiers getting rear support from a cheap unit of light cavalry.

Andy D

Blathergut · Post by **Blathergut** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:46 pm

moved here

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:12 pm

For example, you could have two units of cuirassiers getting rear support from a cheap unit of light cavalry.

A new use for those light horses you have in the mixed division who can stay behind the cuirassier and help them become even more deadly