The only historical truth on the subject of the term HOPLON

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pyros
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The only historical truth on the subject of the term HOPLON

Post by pyros »

Hi,

I spent few hours to search the ancient Greek literature for a quote that will connect the term HOPLON with the SHIELD.

I knew that once I present the quotation from the ancient Greek text and the translation in English from the Tufts (USA) university, even a Greek would understand that the shield of the Hoplite is called HOPLON.


Pausanias, Description of Greece, Arkadika
book 8, chapter 47, section 2


[2] anath??mata de en t??i na??i ta axiolog??tata, esti men to derma huos tou Kalud??niou, dies??peto de hupo tou khronou kai es hapan ??n trikh??n ??d?? psilon: eisi de hai pedai kremamenai, pl??n hosas ??phanisen aut??n ios, has ge ekhontes Lakedaimoni??n hoi aikhmal??toi to pedion Tegeatais eskapton: klin?? te hiera t??s Ath??nas kai Aug??s eik??n graph??i memim??men?? Marp??ss??s te epikl??sin Khoiras, gunaikos Tegeatidos, anakeitai to hoplon.

translation:
[2] Of the votive offerings in the temple these are the most notable. There is the hide of the Calydonian boar, rotted by age and by now altogether without bristles. Hanging up are the fetters, except such as have been destroyed by rust, worn by the Lacedaemonian prisoners when they dug the plain of Tegea. There have been dedicated a sacred couch of Athena, a portrait painting of Auge, and the shield of Marpessa, surnamed Choera, a woman of Tegea;


This text is based on the following book(s):
Pausanias. Pausanias Description of Greece with an English Translation by W.H.S. Jones, Litt.D., and H.A. Ormerod, M.A., in 4 Volumes. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1918.
OCLC: 10818363
ISBN: 0674991044, 0674992075, 0674993004, 0674993284

Ok, Gentlemen... I think here ends this issue... 8)
I may have been accused of being arrogant but at least I am not ignorant... and the ancient Greeks called the hoplite shield with the term: HOPLON (according to Pausanias)

Another small detail that needs to be clarified...

Yianitsaros is the Greek term for Yanissaries

Definition of Yanissaries:

Janissaries (jăn'ĭs??r'ēz) [Turk.,=recruits], elite corps in the service of the Ottoman Empire (Turkey). It was composed of war captives and Christian youths pressed into service; all the recruits were converted to Islam and trained under the strictest discipline. It was originally organized by Sultan Murad I. The Janissaries gained great power in the Ottoman Empire and made and unmade sultans. By 1600, Muslims had begun to enter the corps, largely through bribery, and in the 17th cent. membership in the corps became largely hereditary, while the drafting of Christians gradually ceased. In 1826, Sultan Mahmud II rid himself of the unruly (and by now inefficient) Janissaries by having them massacred in their barracks by his loyal Spahis.

best,
Pyros

p.s Efthimie I think it was obvious that I was joking when I asked you if you were a Yanissaries...LOL :D

p.s He..he.. :twisted: What I did in this post is the first scientifically based proof that Hoplon is a shield according to the original text...Glory to Slitherine Forums. :D
Last edited by pyros on Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
"ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ"
pyros
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Post by pyros »

Take some more...

This is known as the "charistiki voli" :D

Diodorus Siculus, Library
The Seventeenth Book of Diodorus: in Two Parts
17.21.1

XXI. peri d' amphoter??n t??n pesont??n hoi sungeneis athrooi sustraphentes to men pr??ton ??kontizon epi ton Alexandron, epeita de kai sustad??n makhomenoi panta kindunon hupemenon huper tou phoneusai ton basilea. [2] ho de kaiper pollois kai megalois kindunois sunekhomenos hom??s ouk enikato tois pl??thesi t??n polemi??n, alla duo men ekh??n eis ton th??raka pl??gas, mian de eis to kranos, treis d' eis to kathairethen hoplon ek tou ne?? t??s Ath??nas hom??s ouk enedidou, alla t??i parast??mati t??s psukh??s epairomenos pantos deinou katexanistato. [3] meta de tauta kai t??n all??n epiphan??n h??gemon??n par' auton en tois Persais epeson pleious, h??n ??san epiphanestatoi Atizu??s kai Pharnak??s ho t??s Dareiou gunaikos adelphos, eti de Mithrobouzan??s ho Kappadok??n h??goumenos.


Translation:

XXI. The Relatives now pressed in a solid body about the two fallen men1 ; at first they rained their javelins on Alexander, and then closing went all out to slay the king. [2] But exposed as he was to many and fierce attacks he nevertheless was not overborne by the numbers of the foe. Though he took two blows on the breastplate, one on the helmet, and three on the shield which he had brought from the temple of Athena, he still did not give in, but borne up by an exaltation of spirit surmounted every danger. [3] After this, several of the other noble Persians fighting against him fell, of whom the most illustrious were Atizyes and Pharnaces, brother of Dareius's queen, and also Mithrobuzanes who commanded the Cappadocians.3

This text is based on the following book(s):
Diodorus Siculus. Diodorus of Sicily in Twelve Volumes with an English Translation by C. H. Oldfather. Vol. 4-8. Cambridge, Mass.: Harvard University Press; London: William Heinemann, Ltd. 1989.
OCLC: 24758311
ISBN: 0674994132, 0674994221, 0674994396, 0674994280, 0674994647


So just to make it visible :

treis d' eis to kathairethen hoplon ek tou ne?? t??s Ath??nas

is translated to

and three on the shield which he had brought from the temple of Athena

Ok... now, someone must admit that he was wrong... :twisted:

because the shield of the hoplite is indeed the "HOPLON" ,

or in Greek ΤΟ ΟΠΛΟΝ
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bodidley
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Post by bodidley »

This is good info. Before, the website that you cited was not convincing or specific on the topic. I know believe that you are correct. I also believe that you owe several people apologies for insulting, yelling, and now gloating :P

Seriously though, you should apologize. Your behavior was harmful for the usually friendly atmosphere of this forum. Apologizing, by the way, is not a shameful thing to do.
pyros
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Post by pyros »

Bodidley :D ,

Of course, I don't have any problem to apologize to anyone who feels offended by the fact that his ignorance has caused a violation to the history of my nation.

If you call me things, I don't care at all... but if you try to harm and distort the Hellenic history, then this is for me the biggest insult...of all.

Unlike many other Greeks, I feel that I owe a lot to the men of Greece that fought at the battlefields of Marathon, Thermopyles, Salamis, Persia and I know that the least that I can do is to fight for the historical truth.

I guess that at this point I should make a summary of the terminology of HOPLON (το όπλον) :idea:

το όπλο - to Hoplo (n) first meaning was: TOOL, INSTRUMENT; later meaning was the tool of war = weapon

τα όπλα - ta Hopla : tools of war = mainly referred to the protective armaments but could also include all the weapons.

το όπλον - to Hoplon : (later generic use) tool of war, including all weapons

το όπλον - to Hoplon : (early principal meaning) the type of shield that the heavy Greek infantry used to carry in the Hoplite phalanx (Οπλιτική Φάλαγξ) , the Hoplite (Οπλίτης) took his name from his shield (Οπλον).

friendly yours,
Pyros

p.s the only good thing from the above is that for the first time in the NET there are scientifically based (on ancient Greek text) evidences that the shield of the hoplite used the term Hoplon. When I first tried to find concrete evidences I couldn't find any (only academic sources based on opinions without quotes)... so I knew that I had to make the digging :D
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bodidley
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Post by bodidley »

pyros wrote:Of course, I don't have any problem to apologize to anyone who feel offended by the fact the his ignorance has caused a violation to the history of my nation.

If you call me things, I don't care at all... but if you try to harm and distort the Hellenic history, then this is for me the biggest insult...of all.

Unlike many other Greeks, I feel that I owe a lot to the men of Greece that fought at the battlefields of Marathon, Thermopyles, Salamis, Persia and I know that the least that I can do is to fight for the historical truth.
Insinuating that others are ignorant violaters of truth because they do not know all things at all times isn't much of an apology. I haven't tried to harm or distort the history of my or other peoples' ancestors, I haven't called you names, I disagreed with you about the fleeting name of a particular piece of equipment from long ago. Even if I was wrong, either there was a time when you were ignorant of that particular piece of information, or you were born with it tattooed on your forehead.

There seems to be a certain countryman of yours in mind when you say "Unlike many other Greeks" I don't know how it is in Greece, but in the circles I run with an implication that a man is not patriotic is more than a jab. Perhaps I shouldn't say this, but I need to say it. You claim that the motivation for your behavior is patriotic, that it links you to warriors of yore, men who have died on the battlefield for their homeland. Though I have no doubt you love your country and your heritage, I doubt that you will ever know more about serving one's country than I do now. Your words and your assertions are incomparable to the years of my life that I have dedicated to my country, and they are certainly incomparable with the sacrifices of men who have fought and died in battle for their country.

I did not mean to provoke you by asking for an apology. I figured that our differences were trivial, and that we could put any hostilities behind us. If you have decided that you can never be a friend of someone who has disagreed with you over a bygone word for a shield, then I will not press you for an apology, I have already asked you to keep this discussion friendly too many times. All I would have to say is that if you behave that way to people you meet in person then it will bring you no good in life. If you decide that your personal pride is less important than the people you meet, then I will be equally ready to apologize for any distress I may have caused you.

I feel that this exchange between you, myself, and efthimios has been nothing but a black mark on an otherwise emaculate atmosphere for discussion.

p.s. good research! 8)
pyros
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Post by pyros »

Dear bodidley,

Believe me, I don't have any problem with you or Efthimios and I sincerely apologize if I have offended you in any way. :D
bodidley wrote:
There seems to be a certain countryman of yours in mind when you say "Unlike many other Greeks" I don't know how it is in Greece, but in the circles I run with an implication that a man is not patriotic is more than a jab.
You are wrong on this... this refer to the 95% of the Greeks (live in Greece)... or should I say IGNORANT Greeks!!! :evil:
You would be amazed if you knew how much ignorance has the majority of the Greek population for their historical heritage...
bodidley wrote:
p.s. good research! 8)
Thanks mate :wink:
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Post by IainMcNeil »

Sorry guys - no personal attacks of any type will be tolerated. Reasoned discussion is great, but the second someone calls someone a name, or questions their intelligence/education/nationality or anything else, whether it is a joke or not, the thread will be closed down.

Please bear in mind that the words you type can be read in many ways & may not be read how you intended them.
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