FOGN questions after a first reading

[Rekila]

Preparing our first learning battle some questions arose, many are probably quite obvious but an “official” clarification will be nevertheless appreciated!
Light foot: Half the bases should be in open order (e.g 4 fig) some in close order (8fig) when in skirmishing formation all bases should be of 4 figures, correct? In some list there is light foot that can only be in skirmishing order wile in other lists it says “open order ” I assume is the same thing, and that in that case there is no need of having any close order bases. Is there any case where there are light foot units that could only be used in close order?
Movement: there is an entry for skirmish movement but not for light foot. Light foot in close order move like reformed foot?

Reformed infantry. It is supposed to have some skirmishes, is that represented by having a light base or the front bases with less figures ( 6 for example)?

Assault phase. I understand that apart for defensive fire there is no combat in the assault phase. When an inactive player unit need past a CMT to intercept, the ADC point is lost until the reforming phase of his next turn? A unit led by a corps commander “expends all his remaining command points” I assume that means he lost all for that and his following turn, as he must have recovered all at the end of his previous turn.
Impetus units needs a CMT not to assault enemy in range, if you don’t have the necessary command points, the unit assaults, but what happen when the unit is outside command range?

Defensive fire. Only assaulted units can fire or units whose support area is crossed by the assaulting unit can also fire? I found confusing the point of defensive fire when a unit is assault on flank or rear. As the unit assaulted can’t fire to flank or rear the defensive fire is only done by other supporting units? Also “an intercepting unit may not fire defensively” it means only when intercepted in a flank assault or in all cases?

Movement: Skirmishing units more than two MU from enemy can move up to half in any direction, I assume it means sideway, backward or in diagonal but not to the front.
Multiple CMTs by a unit with a brigade commander are all free?
A unit that fails a CMT can still make a simple move but can’t then make a double move, even if that is a simple one, right?

Result of fire table. On 1or 2 hits a unit need a CMT to advance, that refers only to the assault phase, following movement phase or both? Also “a cavalry unit must retire..”, Cavalry can pass a CMT to advance and retire if fails to pass it or must retire without it.

Rear support. A unit with rear support gains a dice and each of his opponents lose one, what happens if both sides have rear support, in a 3 units combat for example?

Lighter cavalry. Points 2 and 4 are about mixed units of light/heavy and Shock/heavy cavalry, but I was unable to find references to such types of units s i.e composition, point cost etc. Are also there other mixed units?

Infantry must choose not to pursuit if there enemy cavalry units within 6MU. Including cavalry attachments?

Spent cavalry. A cavalry unit is spent after a combat if it takes a hit, even if wining the combat?

Field fortifications: A small fortification is 4MU or less, a large one 6MU, that’s 16mm and 24mm in 28mm scale, so a small fortification is between 2 to 3 bases width and a large one 4 bases width. How do you place the units defending them? As they seems not to fit with the front of small and big units in tactical or extended line formation.

And finally Officer attachments. How are they represented (mounted figures, mounted and dismounted etc) And when an artillery unit has an Officer attachment is an artillery base removed or the Officer base added alongside the existing bases, like artillery attachments.

Well that’s all by now. I apologies for having so many questions especially for the obvious ones.

[Blathergut]

Preparing our first learning battle some questions arose, many are probably quite obvious but an “official” clarification will be nevertheless appreciated!
Light foot: Half the bases should be in open order (e.g 4 fig) some in close order (8fig) when in skirmishing formation all bases should be of 4 figures, correct? In some list there is light foot that can only be in skirmishing order wile in other lists it says “open order ” I assume is the same thing, and that in that case there is no need of having any close order bases. Is there any case where there are light foot units that could only be used in close order?

Light Foot: Yes, half bases in the open order (so you can tell them from other infantry). Yes, all 4 bases in the open order (if you have them)(or just jiggle the back bases)(or use a "skirmish" marker). No, being light foot means you have the capability to skirmish (if you want to)(but you can stay in Tactical instead).

Movement: there is an entry for skirmish movement but not for light foot. Light foot in close order move like reformed foot?

Right. Light foot in tactical and line infantry in tactical are the same (although the lights get more dice shooting at medium range).

Reformed infantry. It is supposed to have some skirmishes, is that represented by having a light base or the front bases with less figures ( 6 for example)?

You could, but we've just kept the French to 4 bases of 8 figures each (small unit) and we know that they are reformed while the Austrians (based the same) are unreformed. I saw one example where the first two bases had 3 figures in the front ranks and 4 in the second ranks, and the rear bases had the full 8 figures. I would think whatever works best for you.

Assault phase. I understand that apart for defensive fire there is no combat in the assault phase. When an inactive player unit need past a CMT to intercept, the ADC point is lost until the reforming phase of his next turn? A unit led by a corps commander “expends all his remaining command points” I assume that means he lost all for that and his following turn, as he must have recovered all at the end of his previous turn.

This is one we haven't been watching carefully. Deadtorius has done some intercepts but I don't think we paid the points and then kept him short until end of his turn!

Impetus units needs a CMT not to assault enemy in range, if you don’t have the necessary command points, the unit assaults, but what happen when the unit is outside command range?

Defensive fire. Only assaulted units can fire or units whose support area is crossed by the assaulting unit can also fire? I found confusing the point of defensive fire when a unit is assault on flank or rear. As the unit assaulted can’t fire to flank or rear the defensive fire is only done by other supporting units? Also “an intercepting unit may not fire defensively” it means only when intercepted in a flank assault or in all cases?

Movement: Skirmishing units more than two MU from enemy can move up to half in any direction, I assume it means sideway, backward or in diagonal but not to the front.
Multiple CMTs by a unit with a brigade commander are all free?

No. The first CMT is free.

A unit that fails a CMT can still make a simple move but can’t then make a double move, even if that is a simple one, right?

Correct. It would need to pass a CMT but has already failed one.

Result of fire table. On 1or 2 hits a unit need a CMT to advance, that refers only to the assault phase, following movement phase or both?

All of them. (But only applies to active player.)

Also “a cavalry unit must retire..”, Cavalry can pass a CMT to advance and retire if fails to pass it or must retire without it.

Must retire.

Rear support. A unit with rear support gains a dice and each of his opponents lose one, what happens if both sides have rear support, in a 3 units combat for example?

They cancel each other out, so no one gets extra dice.

Lighter cavalry. Points 2 and 4 are about mixed units of light/heavy and Shock/heavy cavalry, but I was unable to find references to such types of units s i.e composition, point cost etc. Are also there other mixed units?

Infantry must choose not to pursuit if there enemy cavalry units within 6MU. Including cavalry attachments?

I would assume so.

Spent cavalry. A cavalry unit is spent after a combat if it takes a hit, even if wining the combat?

Yes. Cavalry is basically a one-shot deal for the most part.

Field fortifications: A small fortification is 4MU or less, a large one 6MU, that’s 16mm and 24mm in 28mm scale, so a small fortification is between 2 to 3 bases width and a large one 4 bases width. How do you place the units defending them? As they seems not to fit with the front of small and big units in tactical or extended line formation.

And finally Officer attachments. How are they represented (mounted figures, mounted and dismounted etc) And when an artillery unit has an Officer attachment is an artillery base removed or the Officer base added alongside the existing bases, like artillery attachments.

We have just been placing a mounted officer behind/beside the unit to show that an officer is attached. Again, I would think whatever works for you. It would be nice to have that extra infantry or cavalry base with an officer built into it, but maybe someday!!!

Well that’s all by now. I apologies for having so many questions especially for the obvious ones.

[hazelbark]

Light foot: Half the bases should be in open order (e.g 4 fig) some in close order (8fig) when in skirmishing formation all bases should be of 4 figures, correct? In some list there is light foot that can only be in skirmishing order wile in other lists it says “open order ” I assume is the same thing, and that in that case there is no need of having any close order bases. Is there any case where there are light foot units that could only be used in close order?

The # of figures are for ease of play not a requirement as is base replacement. Open order and skirmishing the same thing. Yes Austrain Jaeger in some years cannot skirmish order.

Movement: there is an entry for skirmish movement but not for light foot. Light foot in close order move like reformed foot?

Light infantry are either reformed or unreformed. If they are in tactical order (most common) they move like that. reformed = 6 MU unreformed= 4 MU

Don't think of them as "light foot" think of them as foot with light capablitities.

Reformed infantry. It is supposed to have some skirmishes, is that represented by having a light base or the front bases with less figures ( 6 for example)?

it could but that is not required. Note Reformed infantry may also have a skirmisher attachment. But that is separate from having some figures.
Personally I am basing ALL my foot on 8 to a base in 15mm and using a 15x40 base with 2 figures to indicate a skirmisher attachment. I will put two out to indicate a full unit in skirmish order.

Assault phase. I understand that apart for defensive fire there is no combat in the assault phase. When an inactive player unit need past a CMT to intercept, the ADC point is lost until the reforming phase of his next turn? A unit led by a corps commander “expends all his remaining command points” I assume that means he lost all for that and his following turn, as he must have recovered all at the end of his previous turn.

Essentially correct. You have all your points for defense but don't get them back until you have finished your offense.

Impetus units needs a CMT not to assault enemy in range, if you don’t have the necessary command points, the unit assaults, but what happen when the unit is outside command range?

It assaults unless you can roll a CMT if you can't it assaults.

Defensive fire. Only assaulted units can fire or units whose support area is crossed by the assaulting unit can also fire? I found confusing the point of defensive fire when a unit is assault on flank or rear. As the unit assaulted can’t fire to flank or rear the defensive fire is only done by other supporting units?

Assaulted units or units that an assaulting unit passes through their close zone may fire.
A unit being assaulted to flank or rear does not fire at the units hitting its flank or rear. If it is beign assaulted from front and rear it may still fire to front, but already suffers the cohesion loss prior to shooting to its front. That is the wording on p 33

Also “an intercepting unit may not fire defensively” it means only when intercepted in a flank assault or in all cases?

You assault unit "X". But "Y" intercepts. "Y" may not now fire defensively.

Movement: Skirmishing units more than two MU from enemy can move up to half in any direction, I assume it means sideway, backward or in diagonal but not to the front.

Yes it can move to front. "any" direction. But it cannot move to or start within 2 MU. See p 37, right column 4th bullet last setence.

Multiple CMTs by a unit with a brigade commander are all free?

Please clarify your question. I believe only "1". But more accurately it discounts the need to spend a CP to roll a single CMT.

A unit that fails a CMT can still make a simple move but can’t then make a double move, even if that is a simple one, right?

Interesting question. The charts on p 45 and p146 (Charts) are not identical. p 45 the 2nd paragraph says that no further CMTs may be taken by that unit if you fail one. Combined with the chart on p45 all 2nd moves are complex therefore you could not. I think the section on the chart only applies to the bottom line.

Result of fire table. On 1or 2 hits a unit need a CMT to advance, that refers only to the assault phase, following movement phase or both? Also “a cavalry unit must retire..”, Cavalry can pass a CMT to advance and retire if fails to pass it or must retire without it.

It refers to both the Assault phase and the next IMMEDIATE movement phase.
If "X" assaults and takes 2 hits if must take a CMT to finish the assault.
If "Y" recevies 2 hits in the firing phase then it must take a CMT to advance if the next IMMEDIATE movement phase is its own. Note it can do other moves that are not an advance.

Rear support. A unit with rear support gains a dice and each of his opponents lose one, what happens if both sides have rear support, in a 3 units combat for example?

Another good one. p 56
"A" is fighting "X" and "Y" all have rear support.
"A" get +1 and "X" and "Y" each lose -1 die because of "A" rear support
"A loses -2 dice (one for each rear support) because it is fighting two units each with rear support (note one unit can support two)
So net result is -1 die for "A"

Lighter cavalry. Points 2 and 4 are about mixed units of light/heavy and Shock/heavy cavalry, but I was unable to find references to such types of units s i.e composition, point cost etc. Are also there other mixed units?

I think we will see some historical brigades where you need to mix units to create this. What page are you refering to?

Infantry must choose not to pursuit if there enemy cavalry units within 6MU. Including cavalry attachments?

Attachments are not units.

Spent cavalry. A cavalry unit is spent after a combat if it takes a hit, even if wining the combat?

Yes.

Field fortifications: A small fortification is 4MU or less, a large one 6MU, that’s 16mm and 24mm in 28mm scale, so a small fortification is between 2 to 3 bases width and a large one 4 bases width. How do you place the units defending them? As they seems not to fit with the front of small and big units in tactical or extended line formation.

I think this is an example of the authors trying to accomate existing models. If you read ont he 8th line of page 78 fortifcations. It tells you small fortifcations can only be defended by small units. It does appear an extended line cannot defend a fortification.
I believe the unit counts as defending the whole model regadless of width. So a 16 cm model defended by a small unit (28mm size=12 cm) still counts as defending the full width.

And finally Officer attachments. How are they represented (mounted figures, mounted and dismounted etc) And when an artillery unit has an Officer attachment is an artillery base removed or the Officer base added alongside the existing bases, like artillery attachments.

I am putting a mounted figure on a a single base (15x40mm for 15mm and 20x40mm for 28mm) and place that at the back of the unit. Looks nice and easy to remove as they die a lot. Other way is to put say six foot figures and one mounted on a regualr base and subsitute in, but that seem complicated.

Well that’s all by now. I apologies for having so many questions especially for the obvious ones.

We all must begin. I hope my answers are rigth and helpful.

[Rekila]

Thanks both of you for answering so quickly.
Skirmishing movement: I explain myself badly what I mean is that you can move a full move to the front (and rear) and up to half in any other direction.
Lighter cavalry is in the combat section (page. 60) I assume that it means that some armies with historical small cavalry units will need to combine them to form a unit. But how such units move, cost etc is what I can’t see in the rules

[hazelbark]

Lighter cavalry is in the combat section (page. 60) I assume that it means that some armies with historical small cavalry units will need to combine them to form a unit. But how such units move, cost etc is what I can’t see in the rules

Well the authors thinking having everything in the rules just spoils the fun.

But I would say if there is some heavy in the unit then it moves as heavy. Points are per base so that is easy.
What we haven't seen yet is a mixed unit in the army lists. I suspect this was an idea that got jetisoned at some point and that line never got cleaned up.

But in the early era 1800 i seem to recall the French will have mixed units for instance at Marengo there was a brigade that had about 300 Dragoons and 300 Chasseurs.

[Rekila]

The reason I’m so interested is that for our first learning games we are going to use our old SYW armies (that by now are veteran out or era rules play testers!) And the allies have varied but small cavalry units of 2 bases that must be combined to form FOGN units. So if there is a possibility of having mixed units that will be better that give them an arbitrary classification.

[terrys]

But I would say if there is some heavy in the unit then it moves as heavy. Points are per base so that is easy.
What we haven't seen yet is a mixed unit in the army lists. I suspect this was an idea that got jetisoned at some point and that line never got cleaned up.

They move as the slowest.
I'm not sure if we included any mixed heavy/light units in the lists. It wasn't jettisoned, but is more likely to be useful for converting historical orbats to FOGN