Balancing option for points based MP

[enric]

The points stated by GottaLove88s seems ok for me.

I understand the problem that the amount of units available is limited to 65 by side, even this, I found, for example, that 6 Panthers will never be chosen by anyone, but probably 6 halftracks yes, if available.

I made several test modifying the FS scenarios, and offering different amount of units, that gives versatility to the chosen force.
Probably, in real life in the Ardennes, when creating a team you will easy found that you have available several tanks, SP, arty. but a lot of vehicles and infantry.

In meeting engagement you're offering:
32 Tanks-SP, this half of possible units
7 PanzerIV
5 StugG
4 KingTigers
6 Puma
4 Marders
6 Panthers

16 Infantry 1/4 of total and 4 scouts
8 INFs
4 Scouts
4 Waff.
4 Engineers

9 Auxiliar
1 Wirbel AA
3 Mortar
2 Wespe
2 75mm
1 37mm

3 Transport (you can choose more units that require transport to move than transports!!!)
3 halftrack


Should be a way to limit to 64 the units chosen but not the amount ofered of each type.

[IainMcNeil]

Guys if you want to start building your own MP scenarios and setting up the starting forces and testing them out we'd be very interested to see them. If we get time and you are interested they might even make it in to the user content download system or maybe even the official map packs

[GottaLove88s]

Iain, Quickie on 2.0.5: Did you remove the absolute limits on transports (or other unit types) for Force Selection? I'm still limited to 3 transports, 2 self propelled artillery, 3 mortars, 4 scouts, etc (in Meeting Engagement)... Is this an iPad issue?

[IainMcNeil]

No this isn;t possible with the current design.

Basically we have to place the units on the map and then what you buy determines which actually appear and we can only place 64 units.

[GottaLove88s]

Is that 64 units, 32 for each side? I can see how that's pretty limiting... Can you make the force selection smart enough to permit us to mix and match, but ask us to modify our choices if we exceed 32 units? Limiting to only three transports is a serious handicap. More than two self-propelled artillery would be a very nice to have.

[enric]

Hi Gotta

The offer limit is 64 for side but BA is so flexible that I already done a meeting engagement scenario offering other units, limiting Heavy tanks and offering more much transports and infantry.
The possibilities are infinite, imagine this scenario with a lot of infantry, transports and only Pumas and several SP... and removing air support on the german side, at the Ardennes time the German air force was none left.

[GottaLove88s]

Thanks Enric, Sounds like there's a lot of flexibility there, so long as we don't exceed 64 units per team.

The trick is that not everyone knows how to set up their own scenarios, especially MP ones (and we can't do it on my iPads, can we?).

Do you think it's possible to have more flexibility in Force Selection MP games? Being able to choose more than three transports is a killer for truly mobile strategies.

If a player inadvertently exceeded 64 units during the Force Selection turn, the game could flash a warning, "Players cannot select more than 64 units per team", wait until the tick is touched, and then permit modifications to the selection to bring it under 64.

Have you uploaded your own MP scenarios somewhere, Enric? Let's try 'em out!

[enric]

The forces available (force selection) must be put on the map with the editor mode so, if you want the player may chose until 6 transports you must put six transports on the map. This could be done better but now, is like it's.
So, if you count all offering units at the selection force window you will see that they are 64 units as a maximum. So a player can not exceed them.

User made scenarios are easily shared between Mac and PC, with the iPad, even if not impossible, for now are a tricky thing and not recommended.

[pipfromslitherine]

If you have made some customised MP maps then we can (if they are fun!) put them on the system no problems, allowing iPad users to play them too.

Cheers

Pip

[enric]

Ok Pip, I'll test a little more and I'll pass you.

[GottaLove88s]

Thanks Pip/Enric, Sorry I'm not understanding this. Are you guys saying that BA's editor will let us create "force selection" MP scenarios, so long as we include the maximum possible units of any type on the map? Or are you saying that the editor creates "what you get is what you get" MP scenarios, so the force selection ability comes from the scenario creator (and is therefore fixed) rather than the players? I've bought the Mac version so have to try this out (once I can find time to delete 1GB of stuff from my overly laden HDD).

[enric]

If I make a scenario and put 3 halftracks and 3 scout on the map, when the player init the game he will be able to buy 0-3 halftracks and 0-3 scouts.
If you buy only one of each the scenario will run with only those two pieces, and the others will no appear.

[GottaLove88s]

Aha, light dawns. Thanks guys. So the 64 limit is the total menu of what's available...

Therefore, Meeting Engagement Redux (in beta 2.0.5) offers force selection of:

GERMANS:
Tiger II... 0-4
Marder TD... 0-4
Panther... 0-6
PzIVG... 0-7
Puma... 0-6
SdKfz 251 halftrack... 0-3
StuG... 0-5
Wirbelwind... 0-1
75mm Pak40... 0-2
Infantry... 0-8
Waffen SS... 0-4
Engineers... 0-4
Mortar... 0-3
Scout... 0-4
Wespe... 0-2
37mm Stielgranate... 0-1

ALLIES:
Sherman 76... 1-8
M4 Sherman... 0-6
M10 TD... 0-5
6 pdr... 0-3
M5 Stuart... 0-2
M18 TD... 0-5
M24 Chaffee... 0-2
M36 Jackson... 0-4
Priest SP art... 0-2
Calliope... 0-1
Infantry... 0-8
Rangers... 0-4
Engineers... 0-4
Mortar... 0-3
Scout... 0-4
M3 Halftrack... 0-3

With the max of all the choices always adding to 64. Tada, got it (sorry to be a little slow).

In which case, how about the following suggestions for the basic Meeting Engagement Map (rationale in brackets).

GERMANS:
1. Reduce Marder IIIs from 0-4 to 0-2 (Marder is basically a cheap/slower M18. Allies need M18s because their core tanks suck. Germans don't. Players rarely choose more than 2 of these)
2. Reduce PzIVs from 0-7 to 0-5 (PzIV is a great tank but nobody chooses 7 PzIVs from a menu which also lists Tigers and Panthers)
3. Reduce Pumas from 0-6 to 0-4 (Puma is a cheap M5 light tank, but with less armour; Puma's are good for recon and for hiding around corners but nobody needs/has money left over for 6)
4. Delete 37mm Stielgranate (because it's got less AP than a Chaffee and as little HE as a bazooka; it's a waste of money. I've never played anyone who's used one in FS, yet)
5. That frees up +7 extra units to allocate maybe like this...
6. Increase SdfKz 251 halftracks from 0-3 to 0-8 (ie. +5; enables grouped armour/infantry fast attack battalions; no more plodding your key units for the first five turns)
7. Increase Wirbelwind from 0-1 to 0-2 (ie. +1; to give Germans reasonable AA cover; is it possible for Allied fighter bomber button to refresh faster than German one, to replicate air superiority?)
8. Increase Wespe from 0-2 to 0-3 (ie. +1)

ALLIES:
1. Reduce M4 Sherman from 0-6 to 0-2 (for only 9 cost savings per tank, nobody seems to choose plain vanilla M4s over the higher AP of the Sherman 76; it would be suicide against German heavies. Two plain vanilla M4 Shermans is plenty for any team, and even still I doubt anyone is using them if they can afford a 76)
2. Reduce M10 and M18 TDs, both falling from 0-5 to 0-4 (they're nice extras to a core group of 76s, or useful long rangers, especially the fast M18, but we'd be insane to create a force entirely composed of either, because of the puny defence)
3. This frees up +6 extra units to allocate maybe like this...
4. Increase M3 halftracks from 0-3 to 0-8 (ie. +5; same rationale as SdfKz 251)
5. Increase Priest from 0-2 to 0-3 (ie. +1)

Please could somebody tell me how to do this? Is it possible to modify the core Meeting Engagement Redux MP map/scenario (from 2.0.5) to create this faster/transport friendly 2.0.5b version?

Thanks.

[k9mike]

need to do away with that 6pdr for allies and give them the 17pdr...Also, maybe have Firefly available...The Allies can use all the help they can get. lol
The Germans get the Pak 40 which is/was an amazing AT gun and the allies get the 6pdr?? It doesnt even have HE ability...practically useless against any armor of the Germans(atleast in this game)
I would be more inclined to use more AT guns as a stop gap/ambush...But, seriously...We need something thats going to do something.
Mike

[pipfromslitherine]

Thanks Pip/Enric, Sorry I'm not understanding this. Are you guys saying that BA's editor will let us create "force selection" MP scenarios, so long as we include the maximum possible units of any type on the map? Or are you saying that the editor creates "what you get is what you get" MP scenarios, so the force selection ability comes from the scenario creator (and is therefore fixed) rather than the players? I've bought the Mac version so have to try this out (once I can find time to delete 1GB of stuff from my overly laden HDD).

Yes - we use the same editor to build the maps. So long as you build them with 2.0 or better then if you make a MP map with 'unfixed' units then it will do its Force Selection thing when you go to play it.

Cheers

Pip

[GottaLove88s]

Thanks Pip, That's great news. So, theoretically (when my Mac has space), I just open the BA Editor, somehow there's a way to open the Meeting Engagement Redux scenario, I swap out the rarely chosen units and swap in transports and others, and that will create the transport plus option from my post above? No scripting required? That would be perfect

[pipfromslitherine]

Hmmm - for MP I'm not sure if it knows to make it in the MP folder, so you might have to move the campaign there, but no scripting, no.

Cheers

Pip

[GottaLove88s]

Thanks Pip,

At last, I've finally installed the Mac version of BA and started messing around with your editor. Nice.

I love the Meeting Engagement map and it's easy to find players for it, so I've modified some of the "unfixed" units to create a faster, more flexible game (ie. more transports, etc).

I've saved this as a file called MtgEng_Fast.bam. Other than the filename (see 2 below), it all seems to work fine in single player mode as the Americans.

Three questions:

1. What do I need to move to the \My Games\BBCBA\Multiplayer folder, for BA to pick up the new MtgEng_Fast.bam as an MP scenario?
2. When the new scenario lists at the bottom of my single player campaigns it shows as "MISSING_IDS_CAMPAIGN_NAME". I'm pretty sure I called it "Meeting Engagement - Fast & Sneaky" but I've probably made a mistake somewhere. How do I fix this?
3. The map looks terrible (photo attached), with snow becoming grey white with pink smudges; rather than your usual nifty white with shadows. Now, you did promise no scripting, right? What have I done/failed to do?

Thanks Pip. Really looking forward to playing someone on this...

[enric]

Hey GL88

- You need to copy the scenario_lighting.txt and name it as your_scenario_name_lighting.txt (this is for the looking tiles)
- On the CAMPAIGN.TXT put

[YOUR_SCENARIO_NAME]

- on TEXT1.TXT put:

IDS_CAMPAIGN_NAME,"YOUR_SCENARIO_NAME",
IDS_CAMPAIGN_TEXT,"YOUR_SCENARIO_NAME",

IDS_SCENARIO_YOUR_SCENARIO_NAME,"Name of the scenario that appear when selecting in MP",
IDS_SCENARIO_DESC_YOUR_SCENARIO_NAME, "A description of the scenario",

note the "," after each line on the TEXT1,TXT

Pip may correct me if I'm wrong.

[GottaLove88s]

Thanks Enric,

Where are all of these .txt files that I should modify? I can't see a Campaign.txt or a Text1.txt file.

My \Campaigns folder just contains the MTGENG_FAST folder that I've created and my \Multiplayer folder is empty.

I've just tried to hotseat play the original Meeting Engagement Redux MP scenario to see if that would bring across any files that I could copy and use, but it hasn't.

Cheers,
GL88