"a rich fantasy world"

[thepopulist]

I just found your site and downloaded your demo for Rome Arena. Very Impressive, I think your game has class. I also think that you people are interested in the history, legends and myths of ancient Earth.

This brings us to the idea of a fantasy world. Tolkien's Middle Earth is of course the most famous, but we cant forget Robert E. Howard's Hyborian Age. both these world's have one thing in common, they are derived from the myths and legends of ancient Earth.

Both authors borrowed extensively from Irish myths and legends. Conan is an Irish King, and Tolkien's Elves look suspiciously like the ancient Danaans. A goddess, (Galadriel), overseeing a fountain with prophetic powers is clearly influenced by Celtic myth.

Then of course there is that staple of fantasy, the Orc. What is an Orc? In Beowulf, they were sea monsters. That's where we get the name Orca for Killer Whales. Beowulf slew several of them as he swam the North Sea.

There are ancient legends of Trolls, Giants, Dwarves, and Jotuns in ancient Northern myths, but no mention of orcs. Clearly Tolkien invented them or used a name derived from Beowulf for his new monsters. So where did Tolkien get his inspiration for a humanoid race based on these Sea Monsters?

Robert E. Howard created the Picts, a feral race of mishapen humanoids. The Picts were of course a real people, who lived in what is now Scotland. In the world of Conan, the Picts inhabit the uncivilized wastes on the borders of the world.

J.R.R. Tolkien's Orcs and Robert E. Howard's Picts are both derived from the Fomorians. These monsters were humanoid in appearance, and fought the Danaans for control of Ireland. Balor of the Evil Eye was their King, and his eye could burn an opponent to cinders just by staring at them. (Sounds like Sauron ehh?).

No one has designed a good game that tells of the real legendary wars between the Danaans and the Fomorians. Throw in some dark druids with a cauldron of rebirth that could turn dead soldiers into zombies, then you'd have to fight an undead army as well. If you've ever read the Slaine comic series, you would see what I'm talking about.


What I'm getting at here is this: We dont need another "rich fantasy world". We already have a Real fantasy world, Earth. We just need a good game to play this great story.

...

[duncan]

Great first post! Welcome to the forums!

When thinking about Arcane Legions or whatever is its name now, I would like to have a great background, like we had in Legion Arena. Slitherine had no real work in LA, because the background was already there, provided by History. But AL will be a real challenge for Slitherine, because they'll have to build up some good story behind the battles to make us want to fight the next battle. They tried it in Cult Of Mithras, but it was a weird affair (IMHO).

So you're right, the fantasy worlds are already there, in celt or egyptian (or Tolkienesque, Middle Earth was in fact good ole Earth) mithology, it would save time needed for writing a really good storyline. Warhammer Mark Of Chaos will be an example of how the overcomplicated background and incoherent mithology can destroy a game (I hope I'm wrong).

[sum1won]

I just found your site and downloaded your demo for Rome Arena. Very Impressive, I think your game has class. I also think that you people are interested in the history, legends and myths of ancient Earth.

This brings us to the idea of a fantasy world. Tolkien's Middle Earth is of course the most famous, but we cant forget Robert E. Howard's Hyborian Age. both these world's have one thing in common, they are derived from the myths and legends of ancient Earth.

Both authors borrowed extensively from Irish myths and legends. Conan is an Irish King, and Tolkien's Elves look suspiciously like the ancient Danaans. A goddess, (Galadriel), overseeing a fountain with prophetic powers is clearly influenced by Celtic myth.

Then of course there is that staple of fantasy, the Orc. What is an Orc? In Beowulf, they were sea monsters. That's where we get the name Orca for Killer Whales. Beowulf slew several of them as he swam the North Sea.

There are ancient legends of Trolls, Giants, Dwarves, and Jotuns in ancient Northern myths, but no mention of orcs. Clearly Tolkien invented them or used a name derived from Beowulf for his new monsters. So where did Tolkien get his inspiration for a humanoid race based on these Sea Monsters?

Robert E. Howard created the Picts, a feral race of mishapen humanoids. The Picts were of course a real people, who lived in what is now Scotland. In the world of Conan, the Picts inhabit the uncivilized wastes on the borders of the world.

J.R.R. Tolkien's Orcs and Robert E. Howard's Picts are both derived from the Fomorians. These monsters were humanoid in appearance, and fought the Danaans for control of Ireland. Balor of the Evil Eye was their King, and his eye could burn an opponent to cinders just by staring at them. (Sounds like Sauron ehh?).

No one has designed a good game that tells of the real legendary wars between the Danaans and the Fomorians. Throw in some dark druids with a cauldron of rebirth that could turn dead soldiers into zombies, then you'd have to fight an undead army as well. If you've ever read the Slaine comic series, you would see what I'm talking about.


What I'm getting at here is this: We dont need another "rich fantasy world". We already have a Real fantasy world, Earth. We just need a good game to play this great story.

...

I believe that Nethergate (Or something, Im afraid that I cannot remember the correct name) by Spiderweb Software, deals with the formorians and such already. The game was an okay RPG, on the whole.

[pipfromslitherine]

Rest assured, we are actually as a group much more interested in an interesting story than in just creating a sprawling and over-complex world.

That's not to say that the world isn't cool - it is, that's how you get interesting stories playing out - just that none of us want to spend our time building family trees for the 7th Age of T'Reznakrak...

Cheers

Pip

[honvedseg]

The term "orc" appears to have been derived from "uruk", who were the warrior class of the Huns. The elite mounted bodyguards were known as "Uruk Hai", which was shamelessly usurped by Tolkien for his elite "half-orcs". For anyone who may have traces of Hun ancestry, this is insulting. Having a second (or third?) cousin named "Attila", I just might take offense at being called a green-skinned monster!

Tolkien also "borrowed" a surprising amount of lore from ancient Greek epic poems and stories. Is it too much of a coincidence that the river "Silverload" runs through Lorien in Tolkien's works, when the ancient Greeks financed their fleet against the Persians with a rich vein of silver found in their province of Lorien? The Persians were often denoted as "the power (or shadow) in the East"....

The reference to "Shadowfax" as "one of the Mearas" refers to the sacred Persian white horses which pulled a chariot reserved for the use of their gods.

The ancient Assyrians (even before the Persians) called their walled fortresses "Dur Sharrukin", "Dur Asshur", and other similar names, "dur" meaning "fort". Where do you suppose Tolkien came up with "Barrad Dur"?

As a professor of literature, he was certainly familiar with such a range of early writings, but may or may not have been consciously aware of his sources of inspiration when he created the names.

Edit - "Troll" was the term originally used for a "toll-taker", either at a bridge or toll road, only later did the meaning change to "a monster under a bridge".

[miki]

Hi Honved,

I'm almost sure to recall reading (in a book named aprox. Who's who in Mithology), that an Orc (Orco), was a greek mithologycal monster...

[kleinemann]

This tolkien stuff is also taken alot from ancient german mythology, and stories such as "the nibelung ring" which is about the god Odin & pals (Richard Wagner made an opera about it). Perhaps you could find some stuff for the game from that stuff. I'm really only writing this to claim that Tolkien wasnt very original at all.

[kleinemann]

Perhaps you could have a Harry Potter themed strategy game