Battle of Adda 490 AD

[omarquatar]

the final chapter of the epic "Theoderic vs Odoacer trilogy", as always by frankpowerful and stockwellpete

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10453114/Adda% ... _PW%29.rar

[Turk1964]

Does it have more of those useless Light Spear Heavy Foot. I noticed these are are also in the Hastings Scenario.Can someone explain how you have come up with Light spear for what probably should be offensive /defensive spear.I am sorry but the Scenarios involving these troop types are very one sided .

[stockwellpete]

Does it have more of those useless Light Spear Heavy Foot. I noticed these are are also in the Hastings Scenario.Can someone explain how you have come up with Light spear for what probably should be offensive /defensive spear.I am sorry but the Scenarios involving these troop types are very one sided .

Well, both sides here have a mixture of foot soldiers, including light spear HF (with javelins). There are also "impact foot" and "heavy weapon" soldiers as well as some very good Herul MF. Theodoric's army has more cavalry than Odovacer. These Theoderic versus Odovacer battles have been play-tested quite rigorously and we would hope that they give balanced games.

In the DAG these "Dark Age" armies have their foot soldiers usually represented as "impact foot, swordsmen". We felt that this was partly incorrect and a bit one-dimensional really. For some of the armies represented in the game, most of the foot soldiers would have carried spears instead of swords - swords were an elite weapon, particularly for barbarian societies living outside (and further away from) the Roman empire. It was a bit different for those barbarian societies who were settled on imperial territory. They eventually had access to mass-produced Roman weaponry and their military culture often gradually became more "Romanised".

The other thing to remember is that Germanic warfare was very much about individual prowess after the initial charge (usually they formed a rudimentary sort of wedge at the start of a battle to try and smash through the middle of the enemy line) - tactics do not seem to be a strong point of Germanic warriors once the battle was underway really. So the "offensive spear" and "defensive spear" categories did not seem to us to be so appropriate as they are suggestive of soldiers/warriors who would co-ordinate their actions on the battlefield during the course of an engagement - most likely in some sort of phalanx formation.

[omarquatar]

Does it have more of those useless Light Spear Heavy Foot. I noticed these are are also in the Hastings Scenario.Can someone explain how you have come up with Light spear for what probably should be offensive /defensive spear.I am sorry but the Scenarios involving these troop types are very one sided .

simply because the light spear was the mass weapon of the period. All scenarios are well balanced, the better player (usually pete ) wins most of the times playing either side

[Micha63]

Nice Battle.

[ZeaBed]

The two previous Theodoric battles were first rate and instructive. Can't wait to play this one soon. I can't believe that after getting his arse beat twice Odoacer had stuff left to make a third and last stand. Then he signed a peace treaty (really a surrender) and Theodoric invited him to a sit-down dinner and it was not only the dinner meat that was carved on that occasion. So this is the last instalment of that rivalry. Thanks for the scenario both of you fellows.

[omarquatar]

The two previous Theodoric battles were first rate and instructive. Can't wait to play this one soon. I can't believe that after getting his arse beat twice Odoacer had stuff left to make a third and last stand. Then he signed a peace treaty (really a surrender) and Theodoric invited him to a sit-down dinner and it was not only the dinner meat that was carved on that occasion. So this is the last instalment of that rivalry. Thanks for the scenario both of you fellows.

i must add that it's true that river Adda was the last and decisive battle, but it was followed by a 2years long (!) siege of Ravenna ended only through treason and murder; during this siege there were other minor battles that could not change the course of the war.
thank you for your interest, the scenarios were a lot of work of researching and playtesting.

[Turk1964]

Pete i understand how you have come up with Light spear Heavy foot but they are still very useless especially against impact foot.They do have advantages against Cavalry but only slight in my opinion.If both sides had the same LSHF then ok the battle would be even. It seems though that one side will gain advantage from impact foot HF and in some cases Superior.Others seem to enjoy these scenarios and thats great but do they play against A1 or a human? I will take a look at the last of these Scenarios and give you my opinion so as not to seem biased.When it comes to battles that long ago there are always conflicting opinions about who had what and how they used them.Yes these guys were primarily spear men and i think they were a lot better with them than given credit. So often we imply that Germanic/Barbarian armies were slow thinking oafs and to be honest they seemed to deal with a declining Roman army rather well. We say well the Roman army wasnt that good which it wasnt but they were still capable.

[FedeM]

Hi Turk, Sometimes I like the Light Spr HF or Medium Foots. I found them good to defensive rolls, specially if they are helped by some terrain (hills for example). They are not anarchy tempted and they can cause anarchy to the enemy.

I didnt checked the scenarios so I really can not say how to use them on those battles though...

Cheers.

[stockwellpete]

Pete i understand how you have come up with Light spear Heavy foot but they are still very useless especially against impact foot.They do have advantages against Cavalry but only slight in my opinion.If both sides had the same LSHF then ok the battle would be even. It seems though that one side will gain advantage from impact foot HF and in some cases Superior.Others seem to enjoy these scenarios and thats great but do they play against A1 or a human? I will take a look at the last of these Scenarios and give you my opinion so as not to seem biased.When it comes to battles that long ago there are always conflicting opinions about who had what and how they used them.Yes these guys were primarily spear men and i think they were a lot better with them than given credit. So often we imply that Germanic/Barbarian armies were slow thinking oafs and to be honest they seemed to deal with a declining Roman army rather well. We say well the Roman army wasnt that good which it wasnt but they were still capable.

Have a game or two with this scenario and see how you get on with it then, Turk. I feel that it is a very exciting scenario - we had some really close play-tests with it. Some of the larger contingents do have a couple of "impact foot" warrior BG's to represent the household troops and the Heruls have been classified as "superior MF" (they can still be vulnerable to cavalry if they leave the wooded area). Also, the light spear HF do have javelin capability so they can sometimes disrupt their immediate opponents to give themselves an edge in the melee. It is also worth pointing out that in this series of battles both Odovacer and Theoderic had large numbers of Germanic warriors in their armies so the Roman/German comparison perhaps has less relevance in the later 5th and 6th centuries than it did, say, in the 3rd and 4th centuries AD.

[Turk1964]

Ok Pete ive downloaded the scenario and so far it looks much better than the previous ones. .Still has those pesky Light spear but there is a good variation to go with them.I will play both sides with A1 and give you my opinionas it also looks a good challange.

Cheers Turk

[ZeaBed]

The two previous Theodoric battles were first rate and instructive. Can't wait to play this one soon. I can't believe that after getting his arse beat twice Odoacer had stuff left to make a third and last stand. Then he signed a peace treaty (really a surrender) and Theodoric invited him to a sit-down dinner and it was not only the dinner meat that was carved on that occasion. So this is the last instalment of that rivalry. Thanks for the scenario both of you fellows.

i must add that it's true that river Adda was the last and decisive battle, but it was followed by a 2years long (!) siege of Ravenna ended only through treason and murder; during this siege there were other minor battles that could not change the course of the war.
thank you for your interest, the scenarios were a lot of work of researching and playtesting.

Amazing really. After three defeats in pitched battles and a two year siege - it seems that support for Odoacer had some hang time.