Defensive Fire

[Chasseur]

Hi,

If an assaulting unit comes in at an angle (but does not start from a position where it is a flank assault), then when it stops at 2MU it can be in a position where it is not in the firing zone of the defending unit. Assuming there is no other fire to stop it, it will complete its assault, usually ending up with at least some of its bases in the fire zone of the defending unit.

p.32 says "Firing is calculated as if the assault would complete successfully. This means that some units may fire at assaulting units which do not physically move to within close range."
Is it correct that the assaulting unit would not be fired at? Or does p.32 mean you can fire at them because "Firing is calculated as if the assault would complete successfully"?

Cheers,
John Shaw

[panda2]

I would say the reference on p.32 is pretty decisive and in the circumstances you describe the defending unit would fire.

Andy D

[SirGarnet]

Agreed. Many not-eligible-for-flank attacks will be this way.

[Chasseur]

Hi Terry,

Can you confirm this please.

Cheers,
John Shaw

[terrys]

All units that the assaulting unit pass in front of and within 2MU get to fire with their own dice plus any supporting dice at an assualting unit. This includes any unit that would be able to fire if the assaulting unit completes its charge move into its target.
Although the chargers are stopped at 2MU from the target, this is only to save having to move them back to 2MU should they fail to charge home. We can't dictate the point at which the charge faulters, it could be 100yds from the enemy, or it could be 1yd from the target. Any and all units get to fire because the charge has to be able to get to 0yds to contact its target.

[dvorkin]

All units that the assaulting unit pass in front of and within 2MU get to fire with their own dice plus any supporting dice at an assualting unit. This includes any unit that would be able to fire if the assaulting unit completes its charge move into its target.

Is this the same for artillery or it can fire from medium range?

[terrys]

Is this the same for artillery or it can fire from medium range?

Only close range fire is allowed during the assault phase.
If a unit (presumably of cavalry), tries to charge across and within 2MU of the front of an artillery unit, then it would be fired at by the artillery as welll as the target of the charge.

[Chasseur]

Thanks Terry.

I like that, because we did have a situation in one game where a Cavalry unit charged across the front of Artillery, but we did not fire with it since we thought the Cavalry was no longer in close range when it stopped for defensive fire. What you say makes more sense, that if at any point of the charge move it comes within 2MU of an enemy that can fire at it, this adds to the units firing. Might upset those where it passes just within 2MU, but overall makes more sense.

Cheers,
John Shaw

[SirGarnet]

Is this the same for artillery or it can fire from medium range?

Artillery that is an assault target may choose to Cohesion Test to do so and then abandon guns (or limber and move horse artilery) if the assault is not halted. P30 last bullet and the first paragraph of Defensive Fire on p32 are pretty clear about this.

The medium range shot represents the guns shooting early to leave time to get away. As opposed to stand and fire, where the shot is at close range.

Note on p32 that the medium range shot is taken first since it may be enough to halt the assault early on or even before the assaulter moves.

So, what if the artillery scores 1 hit on a small unit, forcing a CMT to Advance? If the CMT is not taken, or failed, the assault is cancelled and the assaulter stays at the point in its assault move where the shooting occurred. If the CMT is passed, the assault continues and additional shooting may cause additional hits.

1 more hit brings the total to 2, and the CMT to advance has already been passed so there is no additional effect. If 2 or more additional hits are scored, the total hits are 3 or more and additional effects kick in that will stop the assault. If the assaulters don't close to contact, the artillerists remain at their guns and continue normally.

[SirGarnet]

I like that, because we did have a situation in one game where a Cavalry unit charged across the front of Artillery, but we did not fire with it since we thought the Cavalry was no longer in close range when it stopped for defensive fire. What you say makes more sense, that if at any point of the charge move it comes within 2MU of an enemy that can fire at it, this adds to the units firing. Might upset those where it passes just within 2MU, but overall makes more sense.

Cheers,
John Shaw

Brings to mind

"Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of Hell
Rode the six hundred."

[hazelbark]

All units that the assaulting unit pass in front of and within 2MU get to fire with their own dice plus any supporting dice at an assualting unit. This includes any unit that would be able to fire if the assaulting unit completes its charge move into its target.

This makes sense and is helpful, but where is this in the rules?

[SirGarnet]

All units that the assaulting unit pass in front of and within 2MU get to fire with their own dice plus any supporting dice at an assualting unit. This includes any unit that would be able to fire if the assaulting unit completes its charge move into its target.

This makes sense and is helpful, but where is this in the rules?

It does require an inference from p32 discussing that firing "during the assault phase is at close range and only at assaulting units" and "calculated as if the assault would complete successfully. . . ." and the statement that some units may fire at assaulters who don't physically move into close range (due to the possible pause at 2 MU).

[terrys]

Page 32: "Other than artillery firing as above, the only firing allowed during the assault phase is at close range and only at assaulting units."

Most wargamers are happy to seize upon every opportunity to cause damge to their opponent. If we say that something is 'allowed' then you can do it. Perhaps we should have written. "All units capable of firing at close range at assaulting enemy units can do so".
(Note the word 'can', since close range fire during the assault phase is not manditory)

There will always be 2 arguments:
"The rules don't say I can't therefore I can" as opposed to "The rules don't say you can therefore you can't" - and people will use these arguments as and when it suits.....until clarified.

[hazelbark]

Page 32: "Other than artillery firing as above, the only firing allowed during the assault phase is at close range and only at assaulting units."

Most wargamers are happy to seize upon every opportunity to cause damge to their opponent. If we say that something is 'allowed' then you can do it. Perhaps we should have written. "All units capable of firing at close range at assaulting enemy units can do so".
(Note the word 'can', since close range fire during the assault phase is not manditory)

There will always be 2 arguments:
"The rules don't say I can't therefore I can" as opposed to "The rules don't say you can therefore you can't" - and people will use these arguments as and when it suits.....until clarified.

OK. I will accept your clarification. (gee isn't that nice of me)
I think your written defense above is well. Let's say I think it would have been best if there was a little more clarity like if the next sentence after what you quote was. "Any unit can fire at an assaulting unit that passes within close range while making its assaulting move."