Square question

[richafricanus]

Are squares treated any differently for shooting priorities and arc or are they treated like troops in normal tactical (but with reduced dice?). We played it like this but it felt wrong. The situation was as follows:
XX
XX YYYY
YYYY
ZZZZ
ZZZZ

Y are French inf in square facing Z. X are Austrian cav facing the square. Z is Austrian inf facing the square. We played that Y could only shoot at Z (who then retired 3"). Y could then not fire at X because they were on the flank. But it's a square and we wondered why they couldn't fire all around? Did we play this right?

[BrettPT]

We play that squares can fire all around, so the French infantry should have fired at both Austrian targets (if they were both within 2MU) splitting their firing dice between the targets.

I don't think it specifically says that squares fire all around in the rules, but for me it comes under the 'so obvious it goes without saying' catagory. There is a 'safe' zone for opponents at the corners where you can line up out of arc. However the square can do a simple move to turn or wheel to face them so you only get to hide in the corners for 1 shooting phase.

Cheers
Brett

[richafricanus]

That makes sense but opens a shooting priority question. Must you split your fire across available targets or do you have a choice to concentrate all on 1? Also your square is normally a rectangle so do the sides have fewer dice as they're a narrower frontage?

[SirGarnet]

That makes sense but opens a shooting priority question. Must you split your fire across available targets or do you have a choice to concentrate all on 1? Also your square is normally a rectangle so do the sides have fewer dice as they're a narrower frontage?

Squares can be represented either by turning the rear rank of bases 180 or turning the bases so at least one faces in each direction (visually nicer). (p85) So the width of each "face" can't be significant to the dice rolled - the square still only gets a specific number of dice.

Since squares and attachments only fire at close range, shooting must be prioritized and allocated normally across all targets in the arc, which is 4 fields of fire extending from the 4 sides. For purposes of the "unit most central to the target area" rule, I think that by default that must be with reference to the original front.

[terrys]

We will be adding this to the clarifications ...
> A square has no rear, and has 4 front edges.
> A square only fires at close range
> A square fires with a maximum of 3 or 4 dice (small/large) +1 if it has an artillery attachment.
> A square can choose which edge or edges it fires from - It shares its dice against all possible targets (within 2 MU of these edges) using the normal rules for allocating dice.
> A square can both give and receive flank supporting fire - It can only do so if there is no other target within 2 MU of any of its faces.

Notes:
It theory it should only be firing with 1 or 2 dice per face, but this doesn't give the result we want.
We want to stop players riding cavalry past squares without risk. We therefore need squares to be abe to fire with at least 3 dice.
Firing with 3 dice from more more than 1 face would make squares far too effective, therefore this is a compromise.

[SirGarnet]

In theory it should only be firing with 1 or 2 dice per face, but this doesn't give the result we want.
We want to stop players riding cavalry past squares without risk. We therefore need squares to be abe to fire with at least 3 dice. Firing with 3 dice from more more than 1 face would make squares far too effective, therefore this is a compromise.

This is good. Those split-dice shots on different Cav units were fairly ineffective.

> A square has no rear, and has 4 front edges.

So a square in Combat can
- possibly meet the requirements to give or receive Flank Support
- possibly meet the requirements to provide Rear Support (if within 1 MU)
- not meet the requirements for receiving Rear Support since it has no Rear.
?

[donm]

Terry,

My concern with squares not getting rear support is, as attacking cavalry can get rear support they will have two extra dice in the combat.

Looking at two small units, the cavalry will get 4 dice + 1 for rear support, the square 4 dice -1 for the cavalry's rear support. 5 dice to 3.

If the cavalry were lancers, they would get a further 2 dice, so 7 to 3. Interestingly shock cavalry don't get there dice bonus against squres.

Squares were an effective answer to cavalry throughout the period, so I don't understand why the cavalry can easily have more dice in combat?

Don

[KendallB]

The cavalry needs to score 5+ to hit the square so that means of those lancers 7 dice you'd expect 2 maybe 3 hits. Only enough for a single cohesion loss. If the square was already wavering then the enemy committing two cavalry brigades to destroying it seems a fair result to me. Shock heavy cavalry would have 5 dice hitting on 4+ so again 2 or 3 hits. A normal light or heavy cavalry brigade has 5 dice hitting on 5+ so 1 or 2 hits may occur (consider yourself fortunate to drop the square a cohesion level).

The square hits on 4+ with its 3 dice - one hit to send the cavalry is pretty much certain and maybe a cohesion loss with a second hit. The cavalry then passes through the square and gets shot up the bum twice by the square next turn.

All up a win for the square. But then, of course, we all know how fickle the Dice Gods are...

[terrys]

As Kendall says - you have to work out the maths.

Under most circumstances it's very difficult to break a square in one combat even if the square starts disordered. It the square starts steady then the chances of breaking them are tiny.
You also have to consider:
1) It is likely that all cavalry will end the move spent - after which non-shock (non-guard) cavalry have to pass a CMT to charge.
2) The square will get an attempt to recover their cohesion before the cavalry get chance to charge again (usually spent).
It's almost impossible for a steady square to be broken in combat by cavalry - It takes 6 hits hitting on a 5 - not somethiing thats likely to happen with less than a dozen dice.