Skirmisher Formation - please explain

[Vladius]

Skirmisher formation
-pg 16 only says a formation used by light infantry and light cavalry.
- pg 85 light infantry skirmishers are on skirmisher bases
- pg 84 bases being open order if deployed into skirmisher formation

Could someone please explain what on earth this is??? Being a FOG:A and FOG:R player all formations are detailed as pictures in the rules - only pictures i can see of the formation is on pg 83 where they look as extended line formation. My question if the are based as skirmishes but are in like a tatcital formation (bunched up), can they still received the bonus movement in rough (eg buildings)? Your thoughts please??? Ta

[BrettPT]

Regular LC can only be in skirmish formation if they are in extended line (in which case they will always count as skirmishers)
Irreg LC (ie cossacks) are always in skirmish formation whether they are in extended line or tactical

Light Infantry can form skirmish formation. Unlike ancients, light infantry are not inherantly skirmishers. It is simply an additional (along with tactical, extended line, square and march column) formation available to them.
Light infantry in skirmish formation can be either deployed in a block 2 bases deep (like tactical) or one base deep as a extended line of skirmshers (in which case they fire as two units at close range - not medium - but lose a dice when taking cohesion tests.

Cavalry skirmishers don't need to 'change bases' when in skirmish formation. Regular LC keep their 3 figures to a base, Irreg LC keep their 2 or 3 figures to a base.

Light infantry are normally depicted with 1/2 of their bases (2, or 3 for a large unit, of the bases) having skirmishing figures on them (the front rank if in tactical formation).

If light infantry change to skirmish formation, replace the other half of the bases with spare bases depicting skirmising figures (ie all 4/6 bases will show skirmishing figures).

When in skirmish formation, you count as skirmishers for movement. When you are not in skirmish formation, you don't.

Cheers
Brett

[Blathergut]

Light infantry, when not in skirmish formation but instead in tactical, is some of the best infantry in the game. Pricey, when veteran, but excellent!

[deadtorius]

Alas that has been proven to be too true time and again, I really have to work out a way to get those Jaegers into my army

[Blathergut]

They should be fairly potent. Since they have rifles they'll shoot with 4 dice when horse are near compared to my 3.

Attach artillery to them as well. Who says the Austrians are wimpy??!!

[SirGarnet]

It may be easier to explain Skirmisher formation as a STATUS rather than a specific formation on the table.

[MikeHorah]

Light infantry, when not in skirmish formation but instead in tactical, is some of the best infantry in the game. Pricey, when veteran, but excellent!

One of the things Terry and i want to review after some time has elapsed and enough folk have played this system - beyond our dedicated band of bravura beta testers - is whether we have got Light Infantry right - have we gone too far for example -have we made them too effective albeit (shockingly?) expensive? It was clearly important to ensure that this important development towards the end of the 18th century and start of the 19th was given proper recognition and account and it it is one of the things that distingushes it from the mid 18th - in Europe.

[AlanCutner]

One of the things Terry and i want to review after some time has elapsed and enough folk have played this system - beyond our dedicated band of bravura beta testers - is whether we have got Light Infantry right - have we gone too far for example -have we made them too effective albeit (shockingly?) expensive? It was clearly important to ensure that this important development towards the end of the 18th century and start of the 19th was given proper recognition and account and it it is one of the things that distingushes it from the mid 18th - in Europe.

Mike, this reply really worries me. Isn't this a review that should have taken place before publication? Today at my club we were discussing the rules and the quality of finish. One comment was that the rules are more like a beta test version than a finished set. You appear to be confirming this.

I really like the basic rules concepts, and I look forward to playing more games. And I appreciate the continuing input from the authors. But are there lessons to learn for the future?

[SirGarnet]

have we made them too effective

In what ways might they be too effective in game? (Taking out pen and pad to take notes)

[KendallB]

In Mark Urban's book "Rifles" he goes on to say how the entire British Peninsuar army were effectively using light infantry tactics by late 1813-early 1814. If you want a look at effective units go no further than the best ever army that Britain ever fielded (tied IMO with the 1918 army). I don't think that light infantry is over-effective. I think it's just right. Well done!

[BrettPT]

have we made them too effective

In what ways might they be too effective in game? (Taking out pen and pad to take notes)

Well, a couple of benefits of LI ...
1. LI have an (outside) chance to cause a hit from medium range when cavalry are hovering around 6MU - which tends to be often- whereas standard reformed infantry have virtually no chance of causing damage to opponents at medium range, if some chaps on horseback turn up.

2. A small average drilled refomed line plus a skirmisher costs 48 points - same as a LI unit. The LI however gets an extra dice at medium range plus can form skirmish formation if required (free run away and rough terrain mobility).

3. They are the paper to artillery's rock - the safest answer to a nasty enemy battery. A unit of LI in skirmish formation in front of enemy artillery will give more than it takes.

4. Poor Drilled LI, in particular, (at 9 points a base) are very cost effective medium range shooters.

5. Veteran LI are really good, but 16 points a base is a steep price to pay.

At least one of the players at our club (Michael Haycock with his Brits) takes every unit of LI he can - based on (1) and (2) above.

Andy also used to max out on LI, however he has gone off them a little lately. As more players cotton on to trying to get a cheap LC unit to hover within 6MU to reduce enemy medium range shooting, LI shooting effectiveness is probably not enough to justify the extra points.

My view? against a newbie, units of average (or poor) drilled LI are great. A pair of them can machine gun enemy foot quite nicely.
Once however your opponent gets canny and deploys a cavalry unit to reduce their medium range shooting, LI become only marginally cost effective.

Cheers
Brett

[david53]

One of the things Terry and i want to review after some time has elapsed and enough folk have played this system - beyond our dedicated band of bravura beta testers - is whether we have got Light Infantry right - have we gone too far for example -have we made them too effective albeit (shockingly?) expensive? It was clearly important to ensure that this important development towards the end of the 18th century and start of the 19th was given proper recognition and account and it it is one of the things that distingushes it from the mid 18th - in Europe.

Mike, this reply really worries me. Isn't this a review that should have taken place before publication? Today at my club we were discussing the rules and the quality of finish. One comment was that the rules are more like a beta test version than a finished set. You appear to be confirming this.

I really like the basic rules concepts, and I look forward to playing more games. And I appreciate the continuing input from the authors. But are there lessons to learn for the future?

I too am worried by this answer there has hardly been any games at events and theres already thoughs about the rules I am already worried about the lack of any sense of getting more players involved with the rules.

I like the rules but for a rule set to grow you need to involve players and I just don't see that at all.

Dave

[SirGarnet]

Thanks, Brett. I also like the skirmisher ability to move a short distance in any direction. Can't go from Skirmish directly to Square, so Cavalry are a menace (as they were and should be).

2. A small average drilled refomed line plus a skirmisher costs 48 points - same as a LI unit. The LI however gets an extra dice at medium range plus can form skirmish formation if required (free run away and rough terrain mobility).

On pricing, it does make them seem a good deal and therefore to be prized. Which they were - often considered better troops than ordinary line and used for special tasks. If people want to take them, that is certainly better than the reverse. That they are available in limited numbers on the list and also based on historical OOBs limits my concern, but I assume this pricing applied in testing and there must have been a rationale for it.

[Blathergut]

They are costly if you are facing Austrians who come in at 8pts a base. Veterans end up facing twice their numbers!!! So, opponent may have some effect on how many you try to take.