Panzer Corps East - The struggle for Russia "Grand Strategy"

[Chris10]

PANZERCOPRS EAST PREVIEW PRESENTS
real terrain living maps....
all mpas here are final in "Terrain" but still will be reworked with layers,stations and backgroundcolors
Note: These are only fractions of maps


FINISH-SOVIET BORDER


ROMANIAN-SOVIET BORDER

STALINGRAD- Feel the vastness of the russian steppe

[VPaulus]

Actually, the Slovakian campaign has the Slovakian war flag.

My modest contribution to your mod:

[Chris10]

Actually, the Slovakian campaign has the Slovakian war flag.

My modest contribution to your mod:

ohh..doooh....beautiful

[Chris10]

PANZERCORPS EAST PRESENTS
The new "No Unit Left Behind" Minimap Interface for easier strategic overview.
The vanilla minimap displayed an annoying amount of irrelevant icons with irrelevant information but since the FOW in PzC
is just a medium FOW and citys and airfields are displayed anyway on their correct map location its unnecessary
to display them on the minimap.
Now only Victory Hexes,Axis and Russian Units are shown with their corresponding colors


COMPARISON BETWEEN OLD AND NEW MINIMAP IN ORIGINAL SIZE

[bebro]

Very nice stuff. Including VP's flags

[Chris10]

PANZERCORPS EAST PRESENTS

REALISTIC AIRCRAFT OPERATIONAL RANGE AND FUEL
AND
AIR ZONE OF CONTROL

aircraft range and max fuel for axis and soviets reworked completely and have been set into historical and technical relation to each other.
Especially the BF-109 (since F Series) suffered from notoriously short operational range (except for the Bf-109E) and ranges up to 800 km could only be reached with the jettisonable 300l external tank but with the attached tank dogfight ability was severly reduced for which the long ranges and high fuel values of vanilla PzC Bf-109F to K are not justified while maintaining INI,AIRATTACK and AIRDEFENSE values...

This results in most soviet fighter outranging and outfueling their BF-109 counterpart bringing up new tactical considerations.

All aircraft range and fuel tables are acessible thru the library

ZONE OF CONTROL now applys to the airwar too.
This is to enable effective fighter screens, to avoid that entire wings fly thru enemy formations and avoids to much multiple attacks on a single unit when flying in groups.



ALL OTHER MOVEMENT (INF;RECON;TANK;AT;ARTY;AA) AND FUEL WILL BE REWORKED TOO
Tanks will be set into direct relation to each other too which will result in the Tiger and Elefant being outranged vastly by T-34, same applys to fuel which will be assigned in relation to average fuel usage resulting in german armor heavily penalized by this factor..on the other hand german armor carried more ammo
So while german heavy armor will wipe the floor with russian armor it can easily be cut off, encircled and destroyed when out of ammo so new tactics are required in order to make heavy german tank regiments effective...no more Tiger raids like with a PzIV...Stugs on the other hand will have vastly bigger range than german combat tanks

All new movement tables for armor with real world data (range,max fuel) and ingame calculation accessible thru library






.

[Chris10]

PANZERCORPS EAST PRESENTS

*ALL REALISTIC VEHICLE MOVEMENT AND FUEL ACORDING TO OPERATIONAL RANGE OFF ROAD
*ALL VALUES IN RELATION TO EACH OTHER
*MOVEMENT AND FUEL IN PZC REALISTICLY REDEFINED

MOVEMENT POINTS: ARE NOT ACTUALLY REFERRING TO THE VELOCITY OF THE GIVEN UNIT TYPE BUT TO ITS OPERATIONAL OFF ROAD RANGE (HIGH FUEL USAGE) AND COMBAT USAGE (EVEN MORE FUEL USAGE) WITH A FILLED FUEL TANK BEFORE THE FOLLOWING FUEL SUPPLY VEHICLES WOULD HAVE TO REFILL THE VEHICLE > MAX MOVEMENT POINTS EXHAUSTED
FUEL: THE MAX AMOUNT OF FUEL ROUNDS CARRIED BY THE REGIMENT FUEL SUPPLY VEHICLES BEFORE THEY HAVE TO BE RESUPPLIED

I HAVE CHOOSEN THE RELATIVIZATION SYSTEM OVER SIMPLY ASSIGNING PER 10KM RANGE 1 HEX CAUSE IT WOULD GIVE SOME RUSSIAN TANKS MOVEMENT OF 24 (T-34) AND THE SDKFZ 234/1 8 RAD A RANGE OF 60 HEXES (LOL)
SO IN THIS CASES I WILL APPLY DIVIDERS FOR OVER RANGE IN ORDER TO KEEP SOME SORT OF BALANCE
WHAT REALLY MATTERS NOW IS THAT FUEL WILL BECOME AN IMPORTANT TACTIC AND STRATEGIC CONSIDERATION FOR THE GERMAN EFFORTS IN THE EAST (JUST AS IT HAS BEEN BACK THEN)
RUSSIAN EQUIPMENT WILL HAVE THE SAME RANGE DIVIDER BUT A DIFFERENT FUEL MULTIPLIER TO SIMULATE THE FACT THAT THE RED ARMY HAD INFINITE FUEL SUPPLY WHILE GERMAN ARMOR WERE FACING SOME OBSTACLES:::::RAIL TRANSPORTATION WILL BECOME A CRUCIAL STRATEGIC TOOL IF ONLY THERE WOULDNT BE THESE PARTISANS AROUND JUST CUTTING RAILS OFF WHEN SOME HEAVY GUNS QUICKLY HAVE TO BE REDEPLOYED TO MEET ANOTHER RUSSIAN COUNTER

AND DONT YOU WORY ABOUT RELATIVE HIGH MOVEMENT POINTS:::IN WINTER THEY WONT BE THAT HIGH AND THE WINTERS 41/42/43 HAVE BEEN THE LONGEST AND COLDEST SINCE A LONG TIME:::LOL:::SO YOU PROBALY NOT WILLING TO TAKE TO MUCH ACTION CAUSE OF MOVEMENT RESTRICTION;FUEL PENALTY AND BAD COMBAT ODDS GIVING THE RUSSIANS TIME TO BUILD UP AND PRODUCE TANKS;PLANES;DIVISIONS:::AND ANYWAY PANZERCOPRS EAST COMES WITH BIG MAPS TO FEEL THE VASTNESS OF THE RUSSIAN ROOM AND MOVEMENT WILL JUST BE FINE AND THE NOW VERY DIFFERENT MOVEMENT ABILITYS OF EACH VEHICLE WILL LEAD TO A LOT OF NEW TACTIC CONSIDERATIONS TO BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT

GERMAN VEHICLE TABLE

[komisar]

Wow, this is becoming better and better. Can't wait!

[Chris10]

PANZERCORPS EAST PRESENTS

REALISTIC OPERATIONAL AIRCRAFT RANGE AND FUEL TABLE
NEW PLANE TYPES AVAILABLE FOR GERMANS AND SOVIETS

[deducter]

Many of these changes sound very good, but keep in mind the AI may not be able to take advantage of them, even with advanced scripts, unless some of your ideas for AI improvements are implemented for the Afrika expansion.

For instance, bad movement for German units in the winter is great. But to simulate Soviet production/regrouping, you'd have to preplace all units and customize their activation. You can't count on the AI to actually buy appropriate units.

Also, I have no idea how you can currently script the AI to perform an "encirclement" with armor, unless the player blunders badly with his heavy tanks. The AI just attacks towards VH, and it tends to beeline for one VH at a time.

Also I think sticking to historical data for unit statistics is important, but I also think that gameplay balance should be an equally important consideration. For instance, given how the AI currently works, if you actually want the Red Air Force to attack the player's air units given their technical inferiority, you'd either need to set their strength very high (base = approx. 15) or you'd need to buff their stats to an unrealistic level. I choose the latter approach in my mod. What doesn't work is if you give the AI 10 fighters and the player only has 3. The AI will not attack with 10 inferior fighters into the player's 3 superior fighters. It does not understand how to wear down and exhaust a player's units.

[deducter]

Very interesting information, thanks for it!

..after the lend lease really took effect and the russian industry was pulling out more and more cheap and quick-made equipment made by forced labor (those who didnt work did not got food stamps) while mass conscripting division after division riding US trucks,wearing US made uniforms and boots while eating US made canned food...Until today It is totally hushed up and ignored in Russia what the impact of the lend lease really was and those who studied the original contracts and deliverys will be gobsmacked about the sheer amount of material (over 500.000 US trucks,over 2000 ! locomotives) which in fact were responsible for keeping up the russian logistics in the war industry otherwise the factorys would not have been able to produce these amounts cause where there is no transport there is no production...as a comparison the russian production of locomotives for 1941 was 90 !!..same goes for class A plane fuel..Russia had oil but was unable to refine the fuel needed for their air force just like the arabic countrys today produce oil but have to import fuel as they dont produce fuel...Literally all class A plane fuel from 1942 onwards was US delivered and the list goes on and on...

Whether Russia would've lost without Lend-Lease will be debated forever. All of the points you made are very good and absolutely true. The trucks, the foods, the aviation fuel, rare minerals, locomotives, clothing, all were incredibly helpful. What isn't obvious, however, is whether the Russians would've lost without Lend-Lease. I do think Lend-Lease allowed the Russians to produce many more pure military items like tanks and artillery, but I think they would've produced other goods at the expense of tanks/guns if they didn't receive the same level of Lend-Lease aid. They moved entire factories in 1941 to the Urals. They lost 6 million soldiers 40% of their industry in the first six months of the war. Such losses would've destroyed almost any other country.

Yes, the Russians were incredibly boastful and think they single-handedly won the war, which is exaggeration to put it mildly. The aid they received, at minimum, sped the process up several years, and very likely was critical to victory. Yet, at the same time, most people in the West are very dismissive of the Russians because of Cold War thinking. All you ever hear about in America is D-Day, most people have no idea what happened in Eastern Europe for 4 years. There was always a tendency to underestimate Russia, and people from Napoleon to Hitler have made that mistake. I just think, in aiming for a historically accurate campaign, credit should be given where credit is due. And the Russians deserve a lot of credit for their role in winning WWII.

[flakfernrohr]

Very interesting information, thanks for it!

And the Russians deserve a lot of credit for their role in winning WWII.

Yes, I agree with everything you said, but you forgot to mention "THEIR PART" (Russia's) of WWII. Without the aid of the West, the war would have lasted years and years, eventually to some sort of stalemate with no clear victory for either side IMO.

It is also my opinion that the war in the East would not have been nearly so long and bloody had the ruling powers NOT BEEN TOTALITARIAN. There was no place for dissention, slacking or avoiding sacrifice in either Germany and its territory or that of Russia. The people were forced to fight and sacrifice immediately and completely in compliance with only death as an alternative. They did as they were ordered to the point of annihilation by the enemy to avoid something equally as bad as from their own governments. This is something not normal in Western thinking and culture. Democracy would not be strong enough to defeat either Germany or Russia by itself due to the political and individual freedoms observed without regard to individual rights.

Just imagine had Russia opted to join the US in fighting Japan in 1943 or 1944 how much difference it would have made for the US, GB and its Commonwealth in the Pacific.

[Chris10]

Many of these changes sound very good, but keep in mind the AI may not be able to take advantage of them, even with advanced scripts, unless some of your ideas for AI improvements are implemented for the Afrika expansion.
For instance, bad movement for German units in the winter is great. But to simulate Soviet production/regrouping, you'd have to preplace all units and customize their activation. You can't count on the AI to actually buy appropriate units.
Also, I have no idea how you can currently script the AI to perform an "encirclement" with armor, unless the player blunders badly with his heavy tanks. The AI just attacks towards VH, and it tends to beeline for one VH at a time.
Also I think sticking to historical data for unit statistics is important, but I also think that gameplay balance should be an equally important consideration. For instance, given how the AI currently works, if you actually want the Red Air Force to attack the player's air units given their technical inferiority, you'd either need to set their strength very high (base = approx. 15) or you'd need to buff their stats to an unrealistic level. I choose the latter approach in my mod. What doesn't work is if you give the AI 10 fighters and the player only has 3. The AI will not attack with 10 inferior fighters into the player's 3 superior fighters. It does not understand how to wear down and exhaust a player's units.

I start with the realistic comparison model and work my way thru on this base..and maybe I can surprise people...
What Iam doin here is an "out of the box thinking" design...I know the engines limitations very well yet I reject the imposed limits to come up with new design methods...and you dont know how much I would love to have the Afrikakorps.exe and the promised improved editor at hand right now but since its still a while I do what I can do with the engine right now...later I can do the big marvels with the improved AI and Editor coming wiht Afrikakorps

Just imagine had Russia opted to join the US in fighting Japan in 1943 or 1944 how much difference it would have made for the US, GB and its Commonwealth in the Pacific.

Just imagine the Japanese would do what they promised the german government in exchange for declaring war on the US after Pearl Harbor. Attacking Russia in the far east from Manchuria. Japan had a 1,2 million men army hanging around in Manchuria. The war will end with a bitter peace for Russia by mid 1942...Debatable?..of course,just like any "What If" ... but a very possible scenario

[Chris10]

PANZERCOPRS EAST MAPS GOING FINAL

FACTORYS WILL PROVDE PRESTIGE (WAR PRODUCTION) ON KEY POINTS::::::::
ROADS AND RAILS REDEFINED FOR BETTER VISIBILITY:::::::::
MORE NATURAL FEELING CITY BORDERS::::::::::
SMALL MOUNTAIN AND HILLS VILLAGES:::::::::
NEW COLORED BACKGROUND AREAS (LAYER NO YET APPLIED)::::::::::

ALL TILES FROM MASSIS WWII PACK + SOME NEW ASSETS CREATED BY ME ( SOME SPECIAL RIVER CROSSROADS AND RAIL/ROAD BRIDGES,BACKGROUNDTILES, MINOR THINGS REALLY)

BERLIN

BUDAPEST AND SURROUNDING

GENERIC MOUNTAIN AREA

[jaggy]

@chris10 - absolutely fantastic-looking maps and unit details screens Looking forward to the release of this mod.

@VPaulus - great-looking flags as usual.

[bebro]

Impressive map work indeed.

[flakfernrohr]

Back in the fall of last year I made some maps with a similar amount of heavy detailing using Massi's tiles. I wound up with 22 on a scale of 5-7km per hex. It takes a great deal of time, research and effort. I made mine basically one tile at a time. So I can appreciate and understand your efforts to have highly detailed and accurate maps. It was and is a lot of work that you cannot understand unless you start making them. I was beginning to think I was the only person who liked such maps and enjoyed playing them. Now I will be reworking these maps with the tiles from Winter War and Ostfront which have outstanding tiles. Good work Chris. I am following you and your work.

[drjeff21]

Awesome work.

[MickMannock]

The airplane and tank skins which are pictured in the first post of this thread, are they downloadable somewhere or are they exclusive to this mod? They seem to be taken from other modders, but if that is the case I am unsure or where you are able to download them from.

In any case they are beautiful and I would love to apply the new skins to my own game if possible.

[Chris10]

@chris10 - absolutely fantastic-looking maps and unit details screens Looking forward to the release of this mod.

Impressive map work indeed.

Good work Chris. I am following you and your work.

Awesome work.

very kind of you guys...turns out the mapping is more of a character test then simply working on something but I will get it done