Firing over skirmishers

[pptheos]

p.52: "Artillery is allowed to fire through enemy Skirmishers at valid targets beyond; as long as the target is at long range, the Skirmishers are nearer to the guns than the target and the Skirmishers are at least 2 MU away from both."

Does this mean that I can have a screen of Skirmishers infront of my main attack force, within 2 MU from it, that would absorb all the artillery fire at 6+?

It seems that the artillery will not be able to pick the non-skirmisher units as long as they are close enough (within 2 MU) from the skirmishers in front of them.

[BrettPT]

yes, infantry in skirmish formation are the paper to artillery's stone.

A small unit of skirmishers can sit at medium range from artillery, sniping them with 5 dice needing 5+ to hit. The artillery fire back with 6 dice needing 6+ to hit.

[micheni1970]

my friend pptheos says that if we go exactly by the rule , positioning a unit of skirmishers 4.5cm in front of a unit in tactical and moving them against an artillery unit starting from 40 cm distance , means that the guns cannot ignore the skirmishers and fire to the unit behind cause the distance between the skirmishers and the unit in tactical is less than 2 MU . so all the shooting from the guns is at 6+ and only against the skirmishers.
something is wrong here, cause the guns must be allowed to ignore skirmishers when firing balls at long range.
if the restriction of "...at least 2 MU from both" is correct the the line infantry at close order formation behind skirmishers will not take a hit from artillery shooting until it comes to assault range!!!
?
we need the authors here
dimitris

[wana10]

I wouldn't say something is wrong. I'm admittedly very new to the ruleset but it seems that this is an example of when the combined arms of Napoleonic warfare would come into play. His skirmishers are blocking your artillery? Send some cav their way. Assuming I've got that part of the rules down correctly the skirmishers will be forced to take an evade action, which not only will open up the infantry behind to your artillery but if the skirmishers evade through their own infantry that infantry will be forced to take a cohesion test and possibly drop a level before any shooting has occurred. So it really sounds to me that having that skirmish screen is a double edged sword. Good if there is no enemy cavalry about but otherwise can be disastrous.
Don't think of the scenario in a vacuum of enemy inf, enemy skirmishers, my artillery but remember there should be quite a bit more on the table.

[micheni1970]

yes you are right my friend about the combined arms in napoleonic warfare and the skirmish screen but have you ever see skirmisher screen at long range?
i dont.
skirmishers cant screen the cannon ball so thats why the rules allow you to ignore them when you fire at long range at targets behind them .
but here we talk about a trick and this is the distance of 2 MU that changes the rule.

[wana10]

From what I've read (though not exhaustive in any way) the cannons of the period were not firing in massive parabolic arcs. With that in mind, I think that 1600 men whether in close order or a looser "skirmish" (the idea of an entire brigade skirmishing at once seems a little harder to swallow) could shield 1600 men behind them, especially when the lingering smoke would obstruct view to the enemy and when both groups, the line and light inf, are little more than 50-100 yards apart.

Were I to change something it would be the allowing of an entire brigade to skirmish. That seems more suited to a game in which the battalion is the unit, not a brigade. And, if the light inf were in tactical or line we wouldn't need to have this debate. Perhaps allow light inf the bonus to move that skirmishers currently enjoy and count them as having a skirmish attachment but they must make formations and be fired at like other units of foot? Just thinking out loud at this point but it seems reasonable to me. What do you think?

[micheni1970]

you sound reasonable but imagine this:
i have my infantry brigade against your large heavy 12lbs artillery battery starting at 16 MUs with a light infantry unit in skirmish formation 1 MU in front of my brigade .
i play first , you shoot only at my skirmishers needing 6s. and this is going on till i am at charge range ( my skirmishers at 12.5cm from your guns and my infantry at 15cm and you still cant shoot at my close order men.
so i charge the guns passing through my skirmishers and this is the only time that i might get some bullets from your guns !!!!
what you say ?

[micheni1970]

and consider that my skirmishers fire at you for 1 round needing 5+ before my infantry charges .
i want to understand why this 2 MU stops the guns from ignoring skirmishers for long range shooting and makes this tricky situation!!!

[wana10]

If there were no other units on the table it would be a problem. However, in most games there will be more than just those three units. In the scenario you describe all I have to do is get one non-skirmishing unit of either foot or cav within charge range to make your skirmish cover run for the hills, possible dropping the unit behind them from steady to disordered at the same time. Then it's hunting season for the artillery. For the British at least (the army I play) a unit of artillery and a unit of hussars cost less than a unit of line and a unit of skirmishers, so points wise it would be worth doing. In fact, I'd probably hold off the hussars until I made sure that you had reached medium range. You would move into medium range and be unable to fire that turn, then in mine the hussars would run off the skirmishers and my artillery at medium range would be tossing double the dice than they would at long range as well as hitting on a better number. Without playing it out on the table it seems to me that keeping the light inf skirmishing at long range works well as a screen but as soon as they get close they better switch to tactical or line to prevent their auto fleeing.

[micheni1970]

everything you say its ok but i am trying to tell you that skirmish screen at long range artillery shooting doesnt make sense!
i am not talking about tactics now. i am talking about sense
lets wait for some form of more official answer

[SirGarnet]

The common sense of it is that the troops behind take fewer casualties and feel more confident with the skirmishers to the fore. As mentioned above, skirmishers and smoke block visibility, so the artillery may not even know the extent of the forces following behind them. Their safe bet is to lay the guns to hit the skirmish screen, or reduce fire and conserve ammunition.

[terrys]

everything you say its ok but i am trying to tell you that skirmish screen at long range artillery shooting doesnt make sense!
i am not talking about tactics now. i am talking about sense
lets wait for some form of more official answer

There were various methods of reducing casualties at long range which at this scale of a game are not represented. (like sitting/lying down for example).
If someone wants to use a unit of skirmishers purely to reduce casualties at long range then they can. Remember that skirmisher effectiviely operate up to 4" in front of the position that their base occupy. (Which is represented by medium range skirmisher firing). So what you actually have is a 4-600 yard 'zone' in front of your unit covered by skirmishers.
If you really want to reduce casualties against long range fire it's much more effective to reform into extended line and use your skirmishers elsewhere.

Players should note that using light infantry in skirmish formation isn't making good use some of your best troops. They are no better at causing casualties than they are in tactical formation and have no chance of holding against a charge.

[hazelbark]

everything you say its ok but i am trying to tell you that skirmish screen at long range artillery shooting doesnt make sense!
i am not talking about tactics now. i am talking about sense

Not sure which sense you are talking about. But remember it doesn't take much distance on a battlefield to start having an impact at what you are looking at, at what range and who you are targeting. Even experienced gunners (average) are going to not be as reliable hitting an precise group of troops at long range when there are various groups at a mixed range which is the impact of skirmishers being both less dense and harder to judge the range of a target behind them.