Air reconnaisance mission?

[Peter Stauffenberg]

One problem with the air units (e. g. tactical bomber) is that you can NOT attack units you don't see. I think it would be great if an air unit can be sent to a "empty" hex to perform an "attack" there and reveal the nearby hexes as a bonus. If the hex turned out to contain a unit then the attack will become real. If it was empty then you return back to base, but at least you managed to reveal which units are nearby so your land units can decide to attack them if within range.

Is it possible to make this possible in a future version of the game? E. g. the British strategic bomber would be great to use as a scout for the German subs or for the location of German units on defense in France. Now you can only send the strategic bomber to cities or resources.

In North Africa air units would be particularly useful as reconnaisance units because the land units don't see far.

Now I have to send a naval unit to the coast where I expect the enemy to be so some coastal enemy unit is spotted. Then I can attack this unit with my air unit and see a lot more. THEN I can launch the attack and stop the movement in the appropriate hexes. But it's a bit weird to use naval units (e. g. the sub) to locate enemy land units so the air units can fly missions there.

[IainMcNeil]

It might be tricky - what if you want to move to the hex and not recon it. You'd need some sub menu to select the type of mission and this goes against the nice clean UI design. I'm not convinced this would be a good change.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

I don't see a need for conditional air movement rules. So you don't need to complicate rules. The only change needed is that the air unit can fly to an empty hex just as naval units can move to hexes they don't know the content of. If it's occupied by an enemy unit then a battle appears automatically. You don't need a conditional order for that.

You wrote that maybe you want to move to a hex and NOT want to recon it. I think the recon should be automatic just as its automatic today when you bombard a hex where you can see the unit. Who would want to say he doesn't want to recon the hex? Why say no to get the map updated? If you believed we need to make a separate recon mission instead of a bombing mission then I understand your point. But I think all missions should be bombing missions. The only difference is that you have a chance to fly to a hex within range without knowing you will bombard something. The game shows circles on hexes you can bombard (cities, resources and units). Show the other hexes within range with dotted circles and let us have a chance to target them. After it has been targetted the game will perform this mission normally as it would if you had targetted a garrison or whatever. The game will check for interceptions and will reveal the nearby hexes to you and calculate damage. if the hex is empty then the damage is zero.

If you don't want your air unit to engage in combat at any cost then you don't send it to the "empty" hex. Now you can't even do that so you don't lose anything by having a chance to send an air unit to a hex within range you don't know the content of. If you send it for possible bombing or reconnaisance then you have to accept the battle that may happen. It's almost like when you send a tac bomber to a hex to bomb a land unit and become attacked by a previously unseen enemy fighter interceptor.

So the only change needed is to allow for target hexes where you can't see what's inside. Once you commit your air unit to go to that hex it will perform its natural mission there. All is automatic. You will explore territory just the same way as if you knew the unit in the hex beforehand. So you don't even create a new mission called reconnaisance. You simply decide to bomb a hex you don't know the content of. If it's empty then the mission is wasted, but at least you know what's in the nearby hexes.

There are already similar rules for naval units so why not for air units.

[IainMcNeil]

What if you want to move the unit to a hex, not recon it. It doesnt really work.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

I'm talking about enemy occupied hexes here. An air unit can never move to an enemy occupied hex and remain there. It can only fly a mission there and return to the original hex. If the hex is friendly controlled you know what's in the hex and can always move there if within range. Neutral hexes is not an issue because you can never perform any missions without a DoW.

I want to move to a hex as if the unit was occupied and "attack" it, thus recon the surrounding area as if I had sent the air unit to a hex I knew was occupied with a unit. So the only difference is to be allowed to set a target hex I don't know yet is occupied or not.

Of course I want to recon the hex and surrounding hexes just as I want to recon the surrounding hexes when I send my air unit to bombard a unit I can already see.

The problem is that with the code in the game today you can only target visible objects with your air units. I want to target a hex without knowing if it's occupied or not. If it's occupied then the unit will be revealed just prior to combat and all will be the same as today. If the hex is empty then the air unit will travel to the hex and perform nothing and return back to the original hex. In both cases you will see which units are located in the nearby hexes.

I don't know why it's impossible to make this work. The only thing you need to do is to allow us to click on ANY hex within range of the air unit as a legal target. Then you make a check if the hex is occupied or not. If yes then the air unit will attack the same way we can today. If the answer is no then the air unit will do nothing, but at least you know the hex is empty and you will see which units are located in the nearby hexes. So attacking an empty hex is similar to recon. E. g. the British strat bomber can be used to be sent to a target hex in the north sea to check if the Germans to sneak a naval from Wilhelmhaven to the Atlantic Ocean. Now I can't send an air unit to a hex I don't know beforehand can be attacked.

But with naval and air units you can designate any hex within range as a target. If the path to the hex is occupied you will be stopped and combat will occur.

[sagji]

What if you want to move the unit to a hex, not recon it. It doesnt really work.

Please provide a historical example of aircraft rebasing to an enemy controlled area which was outside the recon area - i.e. an example of rebasaing to a hex you can't see and don't control.

[sagji]

I suspect that there is a problem with flying such a mission to a port hex - the Allies would be able bomb an unsees port.
If the recon mission simply revealed the hex and all adjacent hexes, but never attacked the units in the hex, this would be usefull. Altarnitively radius could increase with research.

[IainMcNeil]

Ok true - it might be possible. I'll put it on the wish list though I think there are quite a few more important changes before we get to this kind of thing.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

Great. I can never ask for more than that.

[Happycat]

To some small extent, you do get air reconnaissance by moving an air unit into/close to your front lines. I do this quite frequently. It seems to extend the range of viewable hexes behind the enemy's lines. It's not without risk, but what is?

I agree however that a pure reconnaissance mission would be useful. The afore-mentioned technique is fine for some situations, but if you want to know where an enemy ship is anchored, or simply whether there is anything at all in an enemy port, there is no way to do this with air units. Running a strat bombing raid on a port is useful only to the extent that (a) it does damage on the port and (b) it tells you (the hard way) if there are enemy fighters near the port.