Grand Campaign Unit Revisions - Update for GC42-43West

[deducter]

An important feature of this mod is that units can have different stats from one year to the next, for instance, Panzer IVs cost less in 1943 and again in 1944 than previous years, to simulate increased war production. German armament production peaked in 1944 after all.

To help the Luftwaffe compete with the seriously buffed Red Air Force, I gave various global buffs for certain years for certain air units.

1942: +1 AA to all fighters
1943: originally +1 AD to all air units, but now adjusted to be +1 ammo to all fighters and +1 AD to all air units
1944: originally another +1 AA to all fighters, but now it's +1 AD and +1 GD to everything (not balanced, I don't know how it'll work out)

There are various other types of changes like this.

[ivanov]

Deducter - what do you think about the idea of making all the recon units soft targets aswell? It bothers me that the recon units are turned into a cheap cannon fodder, while in reality they were elite units, consisting of the most experienced troops of each division. Due to that, the recon cars are too vulnerable IMO. I'm not saying that they should have better attack values but that they should be harder to destroy. That would reflect their tactical skill and mobility and that in reality in most of the cases they would be to disengage from the combat against the stronger enemy.

I have to say, I love you mode - it helped to preserve my intrest in the game as I was getting increasingly annoyed and disillusioned with it.

[Chris10]

Its really a shame that there is no option to call different equipment files by script, according to year/date whatever (assuming the differecnes are only unit stats)....technically it would be easy to reload another eqpmt. file with different values between scenarios and even between one turn and the next it should be possible...this for bigger/longer scenarios or even for dry and frozen ground condition...this would allow the abstract simulation of a lot of different situations and circumstances...

[deducter]

Deducter - what do you think about the idea of making all the recon units soft targets aswell? It bothers me that the recon units are turned into a cheap cannon fodder, while in reality they were elite units, consisting of the most experienced troops of each division. Due to that, the recon cars are too vulnerable IMO. I'm not saying that they should have better attack values but that they should be harder to destroy. That would reflect their tactical skill and mobility and that in reality in most of the cases they would be to disengage from the combat against the stronger enemy.

I have to say, I love you mode - it helped to preserve my intrest in the game as I was getting increasingly annoyed and disillusioned with it.

This is a very good suggestion, I can't believe I didn't think of it.

I do know recon were elite units, but I couldn't justify their price increase given their vulnerability.

I think I will increase the price, maybe even double them. They still won't do much to late war tanks. But being soft targets should help them survive.

Edit: btw, had fun with that horde of SMG Infantry 43 in Kharkov? Still think entrenched infantry are a joke?

[deducter]

Its really a shame that there is no option to call different equipment files by script, according to year/date whatever (assuming the differecnes are only unit stats)....technically it would be easy to reload another eqpmt. file with different values between scenarios and even between one turn and the next it should be possible...this for bigger/longer scenarios or even for dry and frozen ground condition...this would allow the abstract simulation of a lot of different situations and circumstances...

I think the beta v1.05 exe does reload equipment files in between scenarios. I know for a fact the official release executable doesn't.

[Chris10]

Its really a shame that there is no option to call different equipment files by script, according to year/date whatever (assuming the differecnes are only unit stats)....technically it would be easy to reload another eqpmt. file with different values between scenarios and even between one turn and the next it should be possible...this for bigger/longer scenarios or even for dry and frozen ground condition...this would allow the abstract simulation of a lot of different situations and circumstances...

I think the beta v1.05 exe does reload equipment files in between scenarios. I know for a fact the official release executable doesn't.

ohh..probably you mean 1.06 beta,do you ?...yeah,I know but I talk about calling a specific file by script command so that on making a campaign/scenario more than one file can come into effect depending on the situation

[bebro]

There's also a kinda "inofficial" 1.05b provided by Rudankort a while ago which re-reads the eqp file. Found it very useful for modding.

http://www.rudankort.me/PanzerCorps105b.zip

[ivanov]

This is a very good suggestion, I can't believe I didn't think of it.
I do know recon were elite units, but I couldn't justify their price increase given their vulnerability.

I think I will increase the price, maybe even double them. They still won't do much to late war tanks. But being soft targets should help them survive.

Excellent

Edit: btw, had fun with that horde of SMG Infantry 43 in Kharkov? Still think entrenched infantry are a joke?

I am actually terryfied now, whenever the masses of Soviet infantry appear I fear them much more than the tanks. I think your mod works out very well. I will contiunue testing it and giving you the feedback and suggestions. Great work and thanks!

[deducter]

There's also a kinda "inofficial" 1.05b provided by Rudankort a while ago which re-reads the eqp file. Found it very useful for modding.

http://www.rudankort.me/PanzerCorps105b.zip

Wow, I never knew this! It is very useful!!

[deducter]

Unfortunately balancing recon units is tougher than it looks. A simple change of only making them SOFT units help in 1943 and beyond, but it would make them very vulnerable to French Infantry in 1940 for instance, unless I increase their GD values. They would also be very resistant to towed AT guns and also many tank destroyers (except the SU-152/ISU-152). I have to think about this carefully, so don't expect any changes yet to the recon cars.

[ivanov]

So maybe for the moment you can make them "soft" targets only from 1943 onwards. That would probably be a good change, as the late war tanks are becoming increasingly powerfull.

[Chris10]

Unfortunately balancing recon units is tougher than it looks. A simple change of only making them SOFT units help in 1943 and beyond, but it would make them very vulnerable to French Infantry in 1940 for instance, unless I increase their GD values. They would also be very resistant to towed AT guns and also many tank destroyers (except the SU-152/ISU-152).

I dont think this would be a problem as it would simulate quite well the fact that recon units instantly pulled out of any unfortunate encounter before suffering high losses...their simple velocity and maneuverbility makes them normally unreachable for infantry or any high calibre cannon when not in close terrain (where only infantry could touch them cause tanks are even slower in close terrain)...making them soft target, increase GD and drop close defense totally to make then very vulnerable in city or forest but on open field impossible to annihalate for infantry and tanks as they simply could not get hold of them..this makes these units valuable to the player as actual real recon unit without being chewed up so quickly like right now and it would resemble a bit more their actual usage and abilities back in WWII...the german 6 wheel recons had a max.vel of 70km/h and the 8 wheelers 85km/h so no way infantry or tanks could harm them on open ground...they simply outran them...well,I think Iam going to implement this for Panzercorps East ...good suggestion from ivanov indeed

[deducter]

If they are now tough to destroy, the price of recon units would also start at 300-400 prestige. START at that, for the wheeled vehicles, and go up to maybe 700-800 prestige for the advanced models.

[Chris10]

If they are now tough to destroy, the price of recon units would also start at 300-400 prestige. START at that, for the wheeled vehicles, and go up to maybe 700-800 prestige for the advanced models.

well...in exchange you could always lower their offensive power a bit(except for the Puma maybe)...I think the main argument here is to make them last longer as recon units as they are normally ahead of their lines in exposed positions where usually they get chewed up by a piled attack o 2-3 units and bumm ...gone...
it would be nice if a recon could survive such onslaught of a heavy tank or infantry (which in reality really could not catch recon units) so that the player can pull it back next turn as now he knows where the rabbit lives

[ivanov]

Yeah, the the increased survivability of the recon cars, wouldn't mean that they have thicker armour, but it would simulate their agility, that enables them to disengage from an unfavourable combat situation. Of course it would look better, if providing the recon cars with a high initiative could save them from the annihilation, but I'm affraid that wouldn't work out very good for them.

If the later recon cars costed 700-800, that would mean that they would be twice more expensive than the Panzer IV or that it would be 80% of the price of the Panther... Doesn't it sound a little too extreme? I think that the best armoured cars should cost more less as much as the Stugs. As Chris mentioned, they would still have a relatively small offensive value, they would be just harder to destroy than it is now.

[deducter]

The problem is recon cars would be used as "tanks," to absorb AI attacks and block chokepoints. That is not acceptable.

I can imagine a chokepoint where the AI might be attacking with SU-85. It runs into a recon car and can't get past it. There are many such situations in DLC43-44. Such an outcome is a worse evil and unacceptable.

Again, I'll have to think long about this issue. I'm happy to hear the ideas, I'm just saying the issue isn't that simple.

[El_Condoro]

It is a complex problem. We dealt with a similar issue with recons in PG2 where they would constantly be used to drain artillery before an assault - usually a tank overrun. The approach (not quite a 'solution') we took was the make the recons very expensive (so the player is encouraged to look after them) with a high GD (to make them harder to kill) and a low ammo maximum (so that, if attacked, they would still be vulnerable after the first attack). That was PG2 - PzC is a different beast.

[HBalck]

I played only the 39th + 40th campaign (BTW all scenarios are more than fantasy), but I had the same unrealistic battle results - in Sedan - the AI runs confused in my units. Also the Infantry is to strong against tanks in open terrain and many many more. When do we have a patch to eliminate this problems. Its not playable for me yet with this engine.

We need a new game engine or a new game !

H.Balck

[ivanov]

It is a complex problem. We dealt with a similar issue with recons in PG2 where they would constantly be used to drain artillery before an assault - usually a tank overrun. The approach (not quite a 'solution') we took was the make the recons very expensive (so the player is encouraged to look after them) with a high GD (to make them harder to kill) and a low ammo maximum (so that, if attacked, they would still be vulnerable after the first attack). That was PG2 - PzC is a different beast.

The real solution would be, if the recon cars could somehow "evade" the attack, that is the random result of at least 50% of the combat situations, when the recon unit is attacked, would end up in... no result - that is no loses on either side. Or alternatively the recon cars could withdraw when attacked. In Strategic Command "The Great War", the submarines can evade the attack and that depends on their experience and technological advancement. I don't think that this mechanics is very advanced from the technical point of view, but it's probably one of those things that would need to be introduced by the developers and goes beyond the modding.

[Chris10]

We need a new game engine or a new game !

H.Balck

well..neither a new engine nor a new game is needed...just adjusting values and the internal maths and formulas...

In Strategic Command "The Great War", the submarines can evade the attack

so they do in Panzercorps..this would indeed be a smart solution and only requires adding one variable tied to the recon unit class to the exe...