Long range fire...too deadly?

[Ryben]

More often than not enemy units fire from nearly the other side of the map (usually with rifles) and hitting my soldiers, even if they are behind good cover. Same happens even with pistols (though many less frecuent) and, of course, when i return fire.

A sniper from that distance could indeed achieve hits but i find quite improbable with regular rifles and truly impossible with submachine guns or pistols. Morale loss because been fired, yes (pinning fire, nearly no chance of hitting something but good to keep heads down). I suggest to reduce the chance of hitting something at that distance.

What do other players think of this? Do you think long range fire is too accurate sometimes?

[boerkameel]

It's hard to judge, as many variables have to be taken into account. When you play Allies vs Axis, their rifles are more accurate:
Lee 60 acc - 60 pen;
kar98 70 acc - 60 pen and +1 accuracy modifier.

I'm only comparing the accurate rifles here. If you use the Garand, it only shoots 50a - 35p. So the Kar has almost double the penetration range of the Garand.

If an enemy using kar98's also has the Drilled Marksmen discipline, their accuracy comes close to an Allied sniper's.

I agree it shouldn't happen with other weapon types, besides the MG's.


Behind which level of cover are you? What type of outfit are you wearing? (your men of course, wouldn't want this to start sounding odd).

[Laxen]

Ahh! My favourite kind of discussion! And don't worry, I'll keep a very open mind here - game balance is a fine art

We have tried many different values for different weapons. It's tricky to make the weapons notably differ from each other yet still not being imbalanced in some way. We also wanted the different sides (axis and allies) to have some minor differences between them (the general difference there is that allied weapons cost somewhat less but with slightly reduced accuracy to make the german forces a bit more elite forces oriented).

And yes - the bolt action rifles are pretty accurate at long ranges. Sometimes not too far from the accuracy found on the sniper rifles when combined with drilled marksmen (well... it's still about 20 percentages which makes some difference). But snipers have other advantages as well - such as ignoring cover and allowing you to pick your target and increased morale damage. Rifles are good for head on combat - but that's what they are designed for. Snipers require much more finesse and are meant to be harder to use.

Also, we want the game to be pretty deadly overall. And rifles are best suited for long range combat. We could still not make them TOO powerful, because then short range weapons would never be used (except for their cheaper cost). We don't want it to take too many turns to kill off an enemy units - especially since you often only get one round to fire upon them if they are on open ground before they hit cover etc. We want to reward good tactical manoeuvres and for reading your opponent's moves.

Let's do some math on the deadliness

An ordinary german soldier with a K98k fires onto an enemy squad in light cover from... let's say 200 meters (which is not too unusual on the larger maps where bolt action rifles are most suited). The Kar has a base accuracy of +1. That's 60% hit chance (slightly more then 1 kill on it's two shots under the right circumstances). The Kar has a range accuracy of 70, which gives a -5 accuracy modifier (1 accuracy modifier subtracted for each 35 meters exceeded). The target is also in light cover, which gives another -1 accuracy modifier. Then let's say that the soldier is also stationary for +1. We end up at a total of -4 (+1, -5, -1, +1). That's only 16% hit chance (The first modifier drops the hit chance by 10 percentages, the second by 9, 3rd by 8 and so on, 50-40-31-23-16-10-5..., to a minimum of 1%). An average of 0.32 shot hit per soldier that fires (2 shots). So if there is a squad of 3 soldiers, about 1 shot can be expected to hit. And then it's armor and stuff upon that. And if the soldiers moved - then it's an additional -2 accuracy modifier (lost stationary bonus and heaviness of 1), and about only 1/3 chance that a single bullet hits a target from the whole 3 man squad.

Being stationary is an important bonus when firing with weapons that aren't light, like sub machine guns. But if you are not the one that advances into combat, you're more likely to be fired upon first (since there is not opportunity fire in the game). It's a balance - remain stationary for good accuracy/cover or advance for the opportunity to fire first. (Of course there are several elements that mixes it up here, like stealth etc, but that's a whole other story).

Sorry if I'm being too detailed. Don't mean to frighten you with all the numbers, just give you a good look into the game's system for an open discussion with all the cards on the table. Please feel free to discuss anything related to this

[Xerkis]

This is awesome information.

Very detailed indeed. But certainly let’s us know how it all works.
Thank for posting this.