Quality vs Quantity???

[panda2]

On the Austrian List you may want to note

"Jaegers, Grenzers, including all skirmisher attachments, must all be in the same mixed division." p133

Skirmisher attachments can be added "Only in a mixed division with no light infantry." p.134

The Austians in 1813 can't therefor have a Grenzer or Jaeger unit (or both) and field skirmisher attachments. I assume this is to reflect that in 1813 the small number of light infantry in a standard Austrian Corp were all concentrated in Advance Guard Division, which would also have 2-3 regiments of Cavalry (and maybe some horse artillery). The second mixed division allowed is presumably to reflect that the 3rd Division of the of the IV Corps at Leipzig had a brigade from the Cuirassier Corp attached to it.

Andy D

[deadtorius]

The Grenzers were in the only mixed division and I did not have any light troops or skirmishers because I thought they would work out ok in that role. In the end they did nothing but go wavering and constantly failed every rally attempt. Next time out its jaegers and a second mixed division with the skirmishers.

[panda2]

Sorry I didn't make my self very clear. Always a risk when you post late at night!

I was trying to point out that the Austian 1813 list doesn't allow you to do what you are proposing. The light infantry and any skirmisher attachments have to be in the same division and skirmisher attachments aren't allowed in a division with light infantry.

This is exceeding restrictive, but probably not unreasonable given the organisaion of the Austrian army in 1813 and the relatively low numbers of light infantry available. A typical corp might have a maximum of only 2-3 battalions of Grenzers and Jaegers (one small unit or several attachments perhaps) and these would all be in the same division.

Good luck with the Austrians though. I'm still trying to work out how to use them, I prefer armies with a bit of a challange!

Andy D

[Blathergut]

So:

You can have 1 division with light infantry or 1 division with skirmishers. Go with the skirmishers in one good division. That would be potent!

[deadtorius]

I think the Austrians are turning out to be fairly challenging already. Someone had posted that the 1813 list is probably Austria at its worst so I can see them somehow being better in the earlier lists, though not sure exactly what would be different. Perhaps more vets and or jaegers?

That list was a first run with no idea how things actually worked, it was not a bad list but I did find plenty of flaws in it that hope to rectify in Austrians V2. I have to see if I can make a second mixed division so I can get the Jaegers in game, preferably with rifles. I will likely use Dragoons and Chevaux leger as I only have 1 of each kind of cavalry unit for my armies at present. Currently using my old soft plastic 20mm boys, but looking at the Victrix 28mm plastics and a lack of desire to try straining the eyes to do more 20mm the larger figs are real tempting. Then I can do up more units of Hussars, always my favorite cavalry to paint.

[panda2]

On lights, you may also want to note (as I've posted elsewhere) that adding a skirmisher attachment to a large unreformed unit is better value than a small one, adding 4 dice at medium range, rather than 3, whilst costing the same points. As attachments they also shoot as drilled, so your 4 dice added to a large average conscript unit would not have to reroll 6s!

On the earlier lists. I think the Austrians would certainly have more vets and drilled and fewer conscripts. There may also be some more lights around in 1809 (the Archduke Charles Legion), although I expect the list will still be fairly restrictive on this. I'm not sure how they'll handle artillery. For 1813 list the authors seem to have taken the view that brigade batteries were concentrated to provide position artillery, rather than used to provide local support. Hence the low number of attachments and the relatively high numbers of artillery available. Looking at the Sacille orbat in the rulebook, I'm not sure they'll take the same view for earlier lists. I expect there may be the potential at least to have more artillery attachments, if fewer artllery units are taken, although the Austrians did form a huge battery at Aspern Essling IIRC. It will be interesting to find out. 1809 Austrians are probably the army I have the most intererest in.

Andy D

[Blathergut]

Where does it say skirmisher attachments shoot as drilled if attached to conscript infantry?

[deadtorius]

Attachments are quite different from the Regimental guns of FOG R that shoot the same as the parent unit. I recall in the rules that you might have to roll attachment dice separately or have different coloured dice since they fire independent of the parent units elan or training. An interesting touch if you also have vets, the attachments are always drilled I guess. I always wanted to try Aspern Essling, the only reason I did up Bavarians many years ago, aside from the nice looking light blue uniforms that is.
It will be interesting to see how jaegers compare to skirmish attachment in Austria V2.

From what I recall from the past the Austrians were pretty much stuck in the era of Frederick the Great as far as staying in line and not being too thrilled about skirmishers running about without any officers to tell them what to do. Seems to be a real control freak army doesn't it?

[Blathergut]

Ah..found it...p. 54: Re:rolls...attachments to veterans or conscripts should be a different colour and don't get re:rolls

k

[Blathergut]

So skirmisher and artillery attachments to skirmishers are a very good deal!

[deadtorius]

would be a good deal for conscript troops thats for sure.

[Blathergut]

So skirmisher and artillery attachments to skirmishers are a very good deal!

doh...."attachments to Conscripts"...

[terrys]

So skirmisher and artillery attachments to skirmishers are a very good deal!

Skirmisher attachments to sirmishers ????
Skirmishers are light infantry and fire as such, so a skirmisher attachment doesn't give them extra dice. (they already get 5)

[Blathergut]

That was brain numbness and typo...ment conscripts