Diplomacy

[konrad]

I would like some explanation about what just happened in my game, and maybe some pointers as to how to prevent it...



Macedonia (Hard setting): After several conquests I, together with the Thracian Odryssi ripped apart the Thracian Bessi Empire (which was quite large, I had to fight several large battles), so now I have a common border with the Thracian Odryssi. Relations with them were never very good (+/- 25%), but I have a good diplomat there and have done nothing to anger them... So I spend some money and gave them Gold Darics, Flattered them, etc... so relations were almost up to 50%...

and then, suddenly, it dropped to 22% and then 6% and now were are bitter enemies (in, I think 3 or 4 turns...)

What happened here ?? How can it drop like that in so little time ??

Does it have something to do with an attack I just made on some 1-city empire (not bordering the Thracian Odryssi)


Thanks for the info...

[joseph_kerr]

If those two had diplomats with each other and were in good standing it could affect your standing with the Thracians. If it's still possible you could go back to before you attacked that city check your standing with the Thracians, attack and then check again to see if that's what made it drop.

It could also be the Thracians just want your head too. I've never had good relations with any of the Thracians playing the Macedonians. Natural enemies i believe?

[duncan]

As macedonians you'll get bad relations with almost everyone around you. Macedonia has good units (cavalry, infantry...), good cities (gold, horses, silver...) but the position is real hard. I managed to win with them, but only after restarting the game twice and fighting and losing some big battles.

The thing with the Thracians ... maybe you have conquered one of their target/"scenario winning" cities. AI has some certain objectives in mind (conquer city X) and does not stop until it gets it. So the relation rating drops because you're actually an enemy.

[konrad]

The thing with the Thracians ... maybe you have conquered one of their target/"scenario winning" cities.

That can be it... I checked it... and it seems those Thracian Odryssi need to hold both Pella and Thesaloniki, which are 2 of my major cities I started this campaign with...

Well, no use trying to keep those guys happy then... I'll have to try and weather the storm (and hopefully, none of my other neighbours will try something....)

Thanks..

[duncan]

It's nice to see that people are still playing Spartan and having good fights with supposedly overpowered nations as Macedonia. Some people overlooked this game as a TW-like effort, but I find Spartan still challenging when i come back every two months...I'm already thinking about installing it in my girlfriend's new laptop...

[konrad]

At this moment the Thracian Odryssi are fighting with Proto-Hoplites and so am I, so at this moment Macedonia is certainly not overpowered.

I don't succeed in building a large army to really attack an enemy, while some enemies are massing 'huge' armies to attack me... so at his moment I am underpowered

(My food and silver income doesn't allow for more troops)

[konrad]

Forget my previous reply...

I have found a way to maximise my food and silver income so I am now able to build at least 2 times as many campaigning units as before...


Result is that I have destroyed the Thracian Odryssi 's 'very large' army and took 1 of their cities (they don't have a field army anymore), the Lemnians (who attacked me with a 'huge' army) were repulsed (won a battle with 400 vs. 640 !!!) and subsequently annihilated by my first campaign army (together with a 1-city/island empire)
And, last but not least, I managed to create a second campaign army and that has already shattered a Tessalian 'very large' army and taken a city...

So after a bit of a slow moment in the game I am back in business and stronger than before...


Thanks for the info...

(just an update of my progress after I received the replies about my questions and after a sleepless night, but that's another story...)

[sum1won]

You know, mercenary hoplites are great for this as well. They cut through early troops like nobody's businiess.

[honvedseg]

The sudden drop in relations is probably either due to that nation taking an interest in one of your cities, or being negatively influenced by your actions against another nation of the same ethnic group.

The "Agressiveness" rating of each nation (on your diplomatic screen once your diplomat gains enough experience) determines how likely that nation is to pick a fight over something it wants or needs. Apparently, your neighbors decided you had whatever it was they wanted.

I've ripped apart a 16 unit Persian army with around 4 units of phalangites and a whole stack of cheap astys (including the one free garrison unit), plus a cavalry scout and a few javelin throwers. The pikes stopped the Persian light infantry cold in mid-field, while the astynomia drew the enemy cav into the woods. The prodromoi charged the opposing bowmen, tying them up long enough for the victorious pikemen to turn their attentions that way. Sadly, the brave light horsemen were lost in the engagement, as were the unit of astynomia which surrounded and unhorsed the Satrap. A small price to pay for the destruction of a complete Persian army.

Astynomia are dirt cheap to field and maintain, so I use lots of them for garrison purposes (always built with an experience level of 3 or higher), stiffened by a heavier unit or two. In the field, they are pretty useless in a head-on engagement, but can wreak havoc on an opponent by outflanking them while their attentions are on your main units.