Some bugs

[ericdoman1]

Hello

Thought I just submitted this?

1) It is happening quite a lot now. A troop that would normally evade stands when it has been contacted by a pursuing enemy unit. I had an lf always on evade, with enough space (nothing at all behind him) to evade and yet it stood when hit by a pikeman.

2) I believe I started this. In order for me to beat prot spears with armoured cav or arm sprs with ha knights, cats. I would on purpose block it's break off move. There will be ocassions when a player has no chance (protecting a flank, shooting from a hill etc). I did this as I found it was the only way to beat spears. However in the TT game if you are unable to break off a certain distance you drop a cohesion level. Would this be classed as a bug and what can be done about it.

3) Although I have also noticed that on ocassions a mounted unit, stays in contact with a foot unit that is still steady. Again is that a bug or have you implemented something into the game where a mounted unit realises it can actually beat the foot unit. Using the examples in 2) Armoured sup cav with sword, would or should beat prot avg off spr/def spear.

4) Finally bow armed cav are standing against lt spear armed cav or lance armed cav. Even sup bow/sword arm cav will stand agst lance, sword, ha, sup kn. That is when the cav is on AI evade. I thought it would automatically evade based on being hit by something that has a better impact factor?

Will include this in another link just in case


Cheers


Eric

[FedeM]

Hi Eric,

Regarding problem number 4 we make a study with TGM some months ago and we concluded that Bow Cavalry setted on AI evade charged by Undrilled Lancers won't evade; they will stand thinking they could win. If the Lancer is drilled they will evade. However I didn't check with Light Spears being charged by Lancers or Charging Bow Cavalry. I presume that Light Spears being charged by Undrilled Lancers have the same problem but Im not certain.
It's easy to find it using the scenario editor.

Im almost sure we submitted the problem as it's on the list I think to make FOG better.

Thanks to mention it again as have to set the Cav to always evade just in case Lancers are around it's not a good thing.

Cheers!

[TheGrayMouser]

The worst thing about #4 is a human player can remember to change his settings but the AI cant so you will always catch AI bow cavalry......

[ericdoman1]

But I thought that they would evade agst better impact mounted/troop. Also what about foot. I can't remember the exact examples but I think bow cav will stand agst some HF types when on AI. Just ahd a look at the rules

Computer AI Evade
This is the default option for both sides' battle groups at the start of any new game.
Light foot will usually evade from anyone other than light foot.
Light horse will usually evade from anyone other than skirmishers.
Cavalry, camels, light chariots will usually evade stronger opponents where they are likely to lose any resulting impact or melee combat.
All will usually evade stronger opponents where they are likely to lose any resulting impact or melee combat.

If taht is the case they shoule evade on AI?

[batesmotel]

The logic for AI evade decisions was never explained in any detail. Keith generally said they would evade if they would expect to lose the combat in the long term, not just the impact. My guess although never verified is that generally non light troops will evade from more expensive troops when charged frontally or other wise stand. Not the best algorithm but it would explain differences like evading from drilled troops but not undrilled of the same grade and equipment. It seems like undependable logic at best in my experience so you are often better off deciding to always or never evade unless you're in a position where either is acceptable for the unit.

Chris

[FedeM]

They dont evade from frontal attacks made by Undrilled Lancers.

And being drilled or undrilled doesnt make a change on the possibility of the outcome of the battle. That is it the Bow Cav loosing against Heavy Armored Lancers for example.

[ericdoman1]

So I think we are in agreement that there is a slight problem. Again sup, arm, cav, bow, sword will stand to receive a charge from sup lance, ha sword kn. Not only should they lose on impact but also in combat. 2 reasons for tehm to evade of AI evade.

Just waiting to hear from the powers that be about the other points?

[TheGrayMouser]

Just saw this one tonite

I charged a camel unit in the rear with a cavalry BG, legal rear hit, the camel evaded 2 hexes and stopped due to his own medium infrantry units blocking... My cavalry followed into contact vs the camels rear and the front of an enemy infantry BG, however, not only did i NOT get a rear hit on the camel, my BG fought the impact vs the infantry BG???

[FedeM]

Mybe in the follow through they reach first the infantry bg?

[FedeM]

I made another small test about about problem Number 4:

Light Spears Cav do evade against Drilled or Undrilled Lancers.
Bow Cav do not evade against Light Spears drilled or undrilled despite the last ones are +POA on impact.

Question. I noticed the Bow Cav do not have the bow support when being charged (the extra two dice that the MF Archers have for example). Wasnt that implemented a few patches back or my memory is making tricks on me?

Cheers!

[batesmotel]

Only foot get the extra dice for support shooting. No mounted do. This is true for both TT and PC FoG.

Chris

[TheGrayMouser]

Mybe in the follow through they reach first the infantry bg?

Well My unit stopped and made contact the rear of the evader and the front of the infantry, no CH loss for the evader and the impact was vs the infantry unit. Doesnt seem right especially when units sometimes cause rear hit losses to TWO enemy BG;s , say for example you pursue a routed BG and slam into the back of a line of enemy troops.... Siince this is a hex based game you BG has two "front hexes"

[FedeM]

Weird then TGM.

[batesmotel]

Just saw this one tonite

I charged a camel unit in the rear with a cavalry BG, legal rear hit, the camel evaded 2 hexes and stopped due to his own medium infrantry units blocking... My cavalry followed into contact vs the camels rear and the front of an enemy infantry BG, however, not only did i NOT get a rear hit on the camel, my BG fought the impact vs the infantry BG???

Which BG(s) were in contact with the two front hex sides of your BG. If the infantry was within your front arc and the camels weren't, then that would explain why you would fight the infantry BG rather than the camels. This would be similar to what would happen if in your initial charge you were facing the infantry and would have had to rotate to impact the camels with a front hex side.

Chris

[TheGrayMouser]

Just saw this one tonite

I charged a camel unit in the rear with a cavalry BG, legal rear hit, the camel evaded 2 hexes and stopped due to his own medium infrantry units blocking... My cavalry followed into contact vs the camels rear and the front of an enemy infantry BG, however, not only did i NOT get a rear hit on the camel, my BG fought the impact vs the infantry BG???

Which BG(s) were in contact with the two front hex sides of your BG. If the infantry was within your front arc and the camels weren't, then that would explain why you would fight the infantry BG rather than the camels. This would be similar to what would happen if in your initial charge you were facing the infantry and would have had to rotate to impact the camels with a front hex side.

Chris

From memory:
enemy camel facing SouthEast, enemy infantry one hex behind and two hexes to the east of camel
my cavaly facing north, one hex south and one hex west of enemy camel
legal rear hit, camel evades due east and stopps( I beleive it kept is "heading"), my cavalry was now facing north east at impact , the right front in contact with rear of camel, left front in contact with front of enemy infantry....

[ericdoman1]

Got a post from Iain

At the moment there are changes in staff occurring.

So we will have to wait for a while before any bugs are deaded:)

TGM- Your example is a rae one. I think I have had 1 or 2 similar in games. It is prob all based on the angle you started off with when charging and the angle of evade from the enemy unit. I would just put that down as being a bit unfortunate

[FedeM]

I made another small test about about problem Number 4:

Light Spears Cav do evade against Drilled or Undrilled Lancers.
Bow Cav do not evade against Light Spears drilled or undrilled despite the last ones are +POA on impact.

Question. I noticed the Bow Cav do not have the bow support when being charged (the extra two dice that the MF Archers have for example). Wasnt that implemented a few patches back or my memory is making tricks on me?

Cheers!

Update:
Bow Cavalry drilled/undrilled evade against Drilled Lancers as long as these ones are Heavy Armored Knights.
Drilled Bow Cavalry do not evade against Cataphracts or other Lancers (Except drilled Heavy Armored Knights)
Undrilled Bow Cavalry evade against drilled Cataphracts.

A mess I think .

Didint check against light spears.

Cheers!