Generals and Disappearing Battle Groups

neilhammond · Post by **neilhammond** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:47 pm

Hi,

We had a situation where I had my generally heroically fighting in the front rank of my cavalry. Unfortunately the unit got reduced to 1 base and auto-exploded. The general was looking embarrassed out of place trying to fight a large spear BG on his own. What happens to the general? We assumed he joined an adjacent unit (although a rout move by the general could have also been a valid reaction).

Neil

rogerg · Post by **rogerg** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:10 pm

We have had this several times. I think if you read the rules, an 'autobreak' is another way to break. The BG routs as normal and the remains of the BG get removed at the end of the joint action phase after the rout in that phase.

A re-wording of the rules might be useful. The term 'autobreak' should be removed. It is confusing and unnecessary "...automatically becomes broken and is removed at the end of the joint action phase", would be used instead. The removal of the term would stop readers thinking of 'autobreak' as something special. There would simply be broken units that we would know make rout moves.

lawrenceg · Post by **lawrenceg** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:22 am

rogerg wrote:We have had this several times. I think if you read the rules, an 'autobreak' is another way to break. The BG routs as normal and the remains of the BG get removed at the end of the joint action phase after the rout in that phase.

A re-wording of the rules might be useful. The term 'autobreak' should be removed. It is confusing and unnecessary "...automatically becomes broken and is removed at the end of the joint action phase", would be used instead. The removal of the term would stop readers thinking of 'autobreak' as something special. There would simply be broken units that we would know make rout moves.

Unfortunately the rules don't say you autobreak when you are down to one base.

They say:

Battle groups with only one base left are also destroyed and removed from the table at the end of any joint action phase.

So a 2-base superior or elite BG would not autobreak. This allows it to fight in melee if it was reduced to 1 base in impact, for example.

As far as I know, the only 2-base BGs are artillery and elephants (possibly scythed chariots and battle wagons?) none of which can be superior or elite (at least the point values stop at average)

If there are no superior or elite 2-base BGs then you might as well change it to 1 base=autobreak. Otherwise change the commanders movement section so a lone commander displaces to a friendly BG whenever in contact with or in shooting range of enemy (instead of when the enemy move into... as at present). I think this latter change would be a good idea anyway as it accounts for the case where a BG is utterly wiped out, as well as clearing up one or two other anomalies.

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:39 am

lawrenceg wrote:
Battle groups with only one base left are also destroyed and removed from the table at the end of any joint action phase.
So a 2-base superior or elite BG would not autobreak. This allows it to fight in melee if it was reduced to 1 base in impact, for example.

This is intentional - it applies to some special BGs, e.g. Nikephorian Byzantine kataphraktoi.

In the normal cases, an autobroken BG will make 2 routs moves before being removed - so the normal rules for commanders with routing BGs would apply.

It is however technically possible (although very rare) for a BG to be completely wiped out in combat by base losses.

As there are no rules stating that a commander is automatically lost in such circumstances, he isn't. He can move away in the JAP. If he perversely chose not to, when the enemy next move he would be forced to move to friends or be destroyed.

shall · Post by **shall** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:30 am

At the end of a JAP it will have routed already

Si

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:22 pm

As there are no rules stating that a commander is automatically lost in such circumstances, he isn't. He can move away in the JAP. If he perversely chose not to, when the enemy next move he would be forced to move to friends or be destroyed.

We figured this out after re-reading section. But again I would like a note in there explaining the process. Maybe in the context of a caption on a diagram example?