Seriously, what Happycat said. This thread is getting old. The price is what the price is.
CEAW is worth the money.
Slitherine has never published a dog. Not once.
Every Slitherine game I have ever bought was worth the money, and I own them all except Legion and Chariots of War, which are the two oldest.
Price
Moderators: firepowerjohan, Happycat, rkr1958, Slitherine Core
I understand Iain, but is it fair that people in country one have to pay more than people in country two for the same game? Perhaps a sollution like Microsoft did with the launch of the Xbox? Giving people that bought the game from day one something extra and those who want that, let them pay extra. And plus, I'm not asking for a price drop, the price can stay the same but then for everybody and not now that depening on your region you have to pay extra for the game, so in my case I just have to pay 21% extra more then the price that's asked on the site, just for living where I live now? So if the 39.99 euro or whatever (depending download or box) would be the price that is charged to my credit card it would be ok.
And I'm sure that the Slitherine games are worth the money, I've played some games already (even beta tested some) but since I have not much time to play with work etc. I don't buy any games anymore, for this one I was going to make an exception untill I entered my credit card info and the system found out where I was living thus making the price higher then a normal pc game. If it was a console game, yes the price would have been ok since now the boxed version costs the same as a game costs for the PS3 or X360 and the download version costs as much as a boxed pc game.
@ Iain, any chance that a European publisher, or more in the region of Benelux could fit it by adjusting the prices so that the game is not over the normal game prices?
And those complaning about people like me nagging about the price like Happycat. You don't have a reason to complain. I'm sure YOUR price was ok and the thing YOU had to pay would be fine for me to. The problem is that the price is region based, so if you live in Europe (European version is already 3 euro more expensive then when I would buy the US version, however matrixgames got a lower price for euro version so that the difference is only 1 euro compared to the US version) you have to pay an additional 15%. In your case, how would you feel. You want the game, you start entering your credit card information and suddenly the things says, so you live in Canada, ow in that case you have to pay $57,49 instead of $49.99. The price is ok, but it's the extra tax just for living here. And what I'm asking is that 39.99 euro would be the retail price of the version for Europe, that's what the price is on the website. But then already VAT included so that I pay 39.99 euro and not a cent more. Normal publishers make sure Europe as a steady market meaning game prices are about the same in every country. Now its just country based, some countries don't have to pay extra, others les. If I want the boxed version I have to pay 21% extra then for example if I would live in Canada. I hope you people understand my reason. I just don't think it's fair. Let us hope a European publisher soon joins and end this madness.
But I see that there is no point of any improvement for Europe, to bad. Seemed a good game but I'm not spending so much money on a game. I mean, the game (boxed version) has the same price as a PS3 or X360 game and even the download version is more expensive then a normal pc boxed game.
edit:
and there's no were on the website that you have to pay extra, it says for a few american states but nothing about European countries. I'm glad that right before I had to confirm my order I noticed a price change, but never got a warning that my price would be raised. If I just pressed OK my credit card would have been charged more then the advertised price of the game without me knowing it.
And I'm sure that the Slitherine games are worth the money, I've played some games already (even beta tested some) but since I have not much time to play with work etc. I don't buy any games anymore, for this one I was going to make an exception untill I entered my credit card info and the system found out where I was living thus making the price higher then a normal pc game. If it was a console game, yes the price would have been ok since now the boxed version costs the same as a game costs for the PS3 or X360 and the download version costs as much as a boxed pc game.
@ Iain, any chance that a European publisher, or more in the region of Benelux could fit it by adjusting the prices so that the game is not over the normal game prices?
And those complaning about people like me nagging about the price like Happycat. You don't have a reason to complain. I'm sure YOUR price was ok and the thing YOU had to pay would be fine for me to. The problem is that the price is region based, so if you live in Europe (European version is already 3 euro more expensive then when I would buy the US version, however matrixgames got a lower price for euro version so that the difference is only 1 euro compared to the US version) you have to pay an additional 15%. In your case, how would you feel. You want the game, you start entering your credit card information and suddenly the things says, so you live in Canada, ow in that case you have to pay $57,49 instead of $49.99. The price is ok, but it's the extra tax just for living here. And what I'm asking is that 39.99 euro would be the retail price of the version for Europe, that's what the price is on the website. But then already VAT included so that I pay 39.99 euro and not a cent more. Normal publishers make sure Europe as a steady market meaning game prices are about the same in every country. Now its just country based, some countries don't have to pay extra, others les. If I want the boxed version I have to pay 21% extra then for example if I would live in Canada. I hope you people understand my reason. I just don't think it's fair. Let us hope a European publisher soon joins and end this madness.
But I see that there is no point of any improvement for Europe, to bad. Seemed a good game but I'm not spending so much money on a game. I mean, the game (boxed version) has the same price as a PS3 or X360 game and even the download version is more expensive then a normal pc boxed game.
edit:
and there's no were on the website that you have to pay extra, it says for a few american states but nothing about European countries. I'm glad that right before I had to confirm my order I noticed a price change, but never got a warning that my price would be raised. If I just pressed OK my credit card would have been charged more then the advertised price of the game without me knowing it.
possum wrote:Seriously, what Happycat said. This thread is getting old. The price is what the price is.
CEAW is worth the money.
Slitherine has never published a dog. Not once.
Every Slitherine game I have ever bought was worth the money, and I own them all except Legion and Chariots of War, which are the two oldest.
I was initially a hold out... but I am glad I bought it and it is worth the price!
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stalins_organ
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DDL from Matrix "US store" or Slitherine - US$49.99aspharanx wrote:I understand Iain, but is it fair that people in country one have to pay more than people in country two for the same game?
DDL from Matrix "UK store" - UKL25.99
conversion rates to NZ$:
UKL25.99 = NZ$65.93
US$49.99 = NZ$62.98
You're miffed about a difference of NZ$3 - about 76p or US$2.40.......
sheesh!
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Peter Stauffenberg
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I don't think $50 for a game like this is too much. Like it or not, but wargames will never attract a lot of customers like e. g. Command and Conquer 3 or World of Warcraft. It still costs a lot of money to make a game like CeaW. How will any company even try such a project if they even have to change less than normal PC computer games like C&C3?
It's sad many people only judge the value of games by the graphics they see. Oblivion had lovely graphics, but the game play was lousy. I got bored of the game very early and felt I wasted my money on that game. CeaW doesn't have superb 3D graphics, but it's not required for such a game. And you can even modify the graphics to your own taste. So I feel the graphics is serving its purpose well. It doesn't hamper game play at all.
The game is good and is supported with patches, map editors etc. The game designers are active on the forums helping people etc. So I think we get a lot of value for our money. If you're not a dedicated wargamer then you might not like it, but for those of us who are then it's manna from Heaven such games are made again. I missed games like Clash of Steel, The Panzer General series, Third Reich, Computer War in Europe. With CeaW and next year MWIF and sometime in the future CWIE 2 we will finally have some nice strategiv wargames to play again.
CeaW works well without many bugs. I feel I got what I wanted and that's all that counts. 50$ is not a big sum to pay for a good game.
I don't really see the problem. If you're not willing to pay the price then you don't purchase the product.
It's sad many people only judge the value of games by the graphics they see. Oblivion had lovely graphics, but the game play was lousy. I got bored of the game very early and felt I wasted my money on that game. CeaW doesn't have superb 3D graphics, but it's not required for such a game. And you can even modify the graphics to your own taste. So I feel the graphics is serving its purpose well. It doesn't hamper game play at all.
The game is good and is supported with patches, map editors etc. The game designers are active on the forums helping people etc. So I think we get a lot of value for our money. If you're not a dedicated wargamer then you might not like it, but for those of us who are then it's manna from Heaven such games are made again. I missed games like Clash of Steel, The Panzer General series, Third Reich, Computer War in Europe. With CeaW and next year MWIF and sometime in the future CWIE 2 we will finally have some nice strategiv wargames to play again.
CeaW works well without many bugs. I feel I got what I wanted and that's all that counts. 50$ is not a big sum to pay for a good game.
I don't really see the problem. If you're not willing to pay the price then you don't purchase the product.
It had nothing to do with conversions, just because I live in Europe I have to pay an additional 15% on the price, so based on your NZ$ prices that means if I would by the UK version I would have to pay NZ$75,82, while buying the US version I would have to pay NZ$72,43. I'm aware that the euro vs USD is good atm, that's why I was going to buy it and pick the US version since that would only cost me 36 euro, thus cheaper then the EU version Sliterine is selling for 39.99 euro or matrixgames for 37.99 euro. But the prices on all sites are FAIR, they are ok and I'm not complaining about them, what I am complaining about is just the fact that because I live in Europa I have to pay an extra 15% to play the game. And since I never played a turn based wargame like this before I don't even know if I'm gonna like it, with not much time for it I'm not gonna buy it for the price I have to pay now. Perhaps for you it's worth the money and I'm sure you have a lot of fun with it, and I might also have a lot of fun with it but one of the reasons I play pc games and not console games is because they are cheaper. If Slitherine starts charging console prices for pc games then I won't participate with it, period. Everybody has its limits, I'm sure some people here might want to offer $100 to CEAW, while others won't pay as much as $40 and not buying the game since it's to expensive. My limit is 40 euro so alle prices advertised on the websites are good and fair, but when adding the additional 15% for living in Europe it goes over my limit and over the normal price for PC games. Why advertising an European version and when you entered all your credit card info it suddenly adds a 15% additional. If the 39.99 euro would include that so that I won't have to pay extra I buy it immediatly. So if Slitherine would charge 34,77 euro for the game in Europe instead of 39.99, the 15% we have to pay extra for living in Europe would be 5,22 euro and if that's added the the price it means that the 39.99 euro would be the european price which would be fair. So Slitherine doens't have to adjust there US prices or whatever, just the European version so that the prices are of the same value of the versions ment for other parts of the world. I mean, why even advertise the European version for 39.99 euro when it actually costs 45,99 euro instead. And not even publish a warning when you buy it that the price will be raised.stalins_organ wrote:DDL from Matrix "US store" or Slitherine - US$49.99aspharanx wrote:I understand Iain, but is it fair that people in country one have to pay more than people in country two for the same game?
DDL from Matrix "UK store" - UKL25.99
conversion rates to NZ$:
UKL25.99 = NZ$65.93
US$49.99 = NZ$62.98
You're miffed about a difference of NZ$3 - about 76p or US$2.40.......
sheesh!
Yeah, 15% taxes (VAT) on the digital download and boxed version uses VAT for the country its being shipped to, in my case 21% for the boxed version. I understand Slitherine can't do anything about that but if they sell european version for 39.99 and european countries have to pay an additional 15%, why not advertise the right price, or even better, include the VAT so that 39.99 IS the price for the game with no extra costs.
And it are the taxes that make the game price jump over normal retail prices. Normally if a game sells taxes are included in the price, so I can buy the game in different European countries, the prices will be about the same (prices can be different between some stores but usally they are all the same, especially on launch). The thing is that Slitherine is selling the game for a price, based on other games so it's a fair price. But they forgot to include the VAT and that's the problem I'm trying to adress, when adding the VAT the download version even jumps over boxed retail versions of other games. And the boxed version sells for a price X360 and PS3 games are being sold. I want a 39.99 euro price with VAT included so that the game is compatetive with other games, it's fairly priced then and not overpriced as now but also, so that the price is similar to the US and UK version. Perhaps the problem is no real European or Benelux publisher that would have taken the European taxes in account, so I hope a publisher for our region could end the overpricing and reduce the price to a fair price (including the VAT ofcourse).
And it are the taxes that make the game price jump over normal retail prices. Normally if a game sells taxes are included in the price, so I can buy the game in different European countries, the prices will be about the same (prices can be different between some stores but usally they are all the same, especially on launch). The thing is that Slitherine is selling the game for a price, based on other games so it's a fair price. But they forgot to include the VAT and that's the problem I'm trying to adress, when adding the VAT the download version even jumps over boxed retail versions of other games. And the boxed version sells for a price X360 and PS3 games are being sold. I want a 39.99 euro price with VAT included so that the game is compatetive with other games, it's fairly priced then and not overpriced as now but also, so that the price is similar to the US and UK version. Perhaps the problem is no real European or Benelux publisher that would have taken the European taxes in account, so I hope a publisher for our region could end the overpricing and reduce the price to a fair price (including the VAT ofcourse).
Seems I miscalculated, when going through a boxed version it added some additional costs (shipping and handling) and when I was talking about overpriced... man... it seems that when ordering a boxed version it would cost me 60,15 euro ($83.13), sorry but that's way overpriced then a normal brand new pc game that is also shipped at my door for 44.95 euro or $62.12. I can understand you people want this topic gone but a difference of 15,2 euro is just to much. That's more than 1/3 of the original price. For god sake, even my World of Warcraft Collectors Edition bough at launch was cheaper then CEAW! The boxed version is just waaaaaaay to much. Buying that would be the most expensive game I ever bought, and believe me, I bought a lot of games, mostly pre ordered them and a lot of collector editions. There is no way I am gonna pay that much, and I doubt there are many other Europeans that want to buy it for that price. Only a hardcore fan would want to pay that...
It will be my last time to nag about the price... I understand that it's not fun for the forum users as well. But I hope that Slitherine will take the European market into account and not forget us, we are just over the sea you now... we are not far away from you, don't forget us so stop the really overpriced European price. There, I said it, I let Slitherine know that the prices are way to much when compared to other games on the European market. I hope you guys understand that I needed to do this, you would probably do the same when you find out that CEAW would cost a lot more then normal PC games.
At least one of us will get his wish
It will be my last time to nag about the price... I understand that it's not fun for the forum users as well. But I hope that Slitherine will take the European market into account and not forget us, we are just over the sea you now... we are not far away from you, don't forget us so stop the really overpriced European price. There, I said it, I let Slitherine know that the prices are way to much when compared to other games on the European market. I hope you guys understand that I needed to do this, you would probably do the same when you find out that CEAW would cost a lot more then normal PC games.
At least one of us will get his wish
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Peter Stauffenberg
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Why don't you buy the download version and avoid the VAT?
Buying computer games from abroad is an expensive matter. E. g. in Norway it's 25% VAT for all parcels. In additions comes a handling fee at the
Norwegian customs for about $15 even though we don't pay customs for computer games. Then you also need to pay maybe $5-$10 for postage and shipping. So a computer game with a price of $60 will cost me maybe $100 if I buy it from abroad.
But when I buy games with just a download then I pay just the game cost of $60 and avoid all the rest.
There are rules that when you sell a product to a foreign customer you should deduct the local VAT from the price you change. This is because the person will have to pay VAT when it's handled through customs. You shouldn't have to pay VAT twice. But some companies who aren't familiar with foreign customers forget to deduct the local VAT. These games become very expensive indeed.
E. g. Skype is very smart because they are registrated in Luxembourg so only residents of Luxembourg will have to pay VAT when people buy credit for SkypeOut. This way you don't have to bother with VAT-. I don't know the Slitherine policy of how they charge VAT for foreign customers.
Buying computer games from abroad is an expensive matter. E. g. in Norway it's 25% VAT for all parcels. In additions comes a handling fee at the
Norwegian customs for about $15 even though we don't pay customs for computer games. Then you also need to pay maybe $5-$10 for postage and shipping. So a computer game with a price of $60 will cost me maybe $100 if I buy it from abroad.
But when I buy games with just a download then I pay just the game cost of $60 and avoid all the rest.
There are rules that when you sell a product to a foreign customer you should deduct the local VAT from the price you change. This is because the person will have to pay VAT when it's handled through customs. You shouldn't have to pay VAT twice. But some companies who aren't familiar with foreign customers forget to deduct the local VAT. These games become very expensive indeed.
E. g. Skype is very smart because they are registrated in Luxembourg so only residents of Luxembourg will have to pay VAT when people buy credit for SkypeOut. This way you don't have to bother with VAT-. I don't know the Slitherine policy of how they charge VAT for foreign customers.
Well I wanted to avoid the VAT but it's not possible, if I pick my country it adds the 15%, if I pick another country it will just give an error that the information is invalid. The system checks to wat country the credit card is registered, so I can only choose my country and pick the 15%, even for a digital download. No matter what version I want, I have to pay extra and there's no way in avoiding it.
About the charging they charge 15% for Europe for the download version. The boxed version (only available at matrixgames as I know, charges the local VAT, in my case 21%).
An interesting fact I just discoverd, if I pick Norway there is no additoinal tax, it's the only country in Europe so far that doesn't have to pay extra taxes, I wonder why? When picking Sweden again taxes are there. Guess it's not every European country that has to pay taxes.
About the charging they charge 15% for Europe for the download version. The boxed version (only available at matrixgames as I know, charges the local VAT, in my case 21%).
An interesting fact I just discoverd, if I pick Norway there is no additoinal tax, it's the only country in Europe so far that doesn't have to pay extra taxes, I wonder why? When picking Sweden again taxes are there. Guess it's not every European country that has to pay taxes.
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Peter Stauffenberg
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Maybe because we're not a member of the European Union.aspharanx wrote:Well An interesting fact I just discoverd, if I pick Norway there is no additoinal tax, it's the only country in Europe so far that doesn't have to pay extra taxes, I wonder why? When picking Sweden again taxes are there. Guess it's not every European country that has to pay taxes.
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Plainian
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Re : the posts by aspharanx. I think the main query is why Matrix chose to add UK or any EU VAT/Customs Duty to any purchase/download by anyone that lives in the EU or the Uk as in my case? The only reason that I can think they do this is if they have registered as a company in the UK? Only companies registered in the UK are subject to UK tax and UK tax collection?
I also buy games from HPS. HPS is another US games manufacturer/distributer. They ship them to me in the UK. Edit - they DO NOT CHARGE ME VAT/CUSTMS DUTY UP FRONT! - Edit
Some of these games get stopped by UK customs and I pay 17.5% duty on them. Some do not. What I do to ensure that they do not get stopped is to ask for the games to be shipped to a friend who lives in the US who takes the game and puts it in a plain brown envelope and mails it on to me. Yes I might be cheating because he is sending me something which UK customs treats as a gift at a small value and so will let pass unexamined.
What I've never understood is why Matrix operates one system and people like HPS operate another? Why is Matrix working for the UK govt?
I also buy games from HPS. HPS is another US games manufacturer/distributer. They ship them to me in the UK. Edit - they DO NOT CHARGE ME VAT/CUSTMS DUTY UP FRONT! - Edit
Some of these games get stopped by UK customs and I pay 17.5% duty on them. Some do not. What I do to ensure that they do not get stopped is to ask for the games to be shipped to a friend who lives in the US who takes the game and puts it in a plain brown envelope and mails it on to me. Yes I might be cheating because he is sending me something which UK customs treats as a gift at a small value and so will let pass unexamined.
What I've never understood is why Matrix operates one system and people like HPS operate another? Why is Matrix working for the UK govt?
It's not only matrixgames, Slitherine is charging VAT too. They all are charging it. And even if I pick the US version (matrixgames is probably in the US too, and I pick my country it adds 15%), so I don't know if it has something to do with the place they got an office or so. But normally it would be like HPS, since in normal circumstances when you buy something customs will check it and add something. Ik remember buying something from the states and when the postal man came at the door I had to pay about 60% extra, just taxes.
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stalins_organ
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IainMcNeil
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Peter Stauffenberg
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Look here for a link about the VAT rules:iainmcneil wrote:If we dont pay VAT we are breaking UK law. I don't know where HPS is based or what rules apply to them.
Anyway - the price is the price so I can't see any point in taking this any further
http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/ta ... dex_en.htm
I'm no expert of VAT and don't understand all what's mentioned in these WEB pages, but maybe someone else can read
them and find out what's right.
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Happycat
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Reading these VAT rules (which are as complex as Canada's GST/HST rules) kind of makes you want to become an anarchist, doesn't it?Stauffenberg wrote:Look here for a link about the VAT rules:iainmcneil wrote:If we dont pay VAT we are breaking UK law. I don't know where HPS is based or what rules apply to them.
Anyway - the price is the price so I can't see any point in taking this any further
http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/ta ... dex_en.htm
I'm no expert of VAT and don't understand all what's mentioned in these WEB pages, but maybe someone else can read
them and find out what's right.
Chance favours the prepared mind.