French vs Caroline Imperialist

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Niceas
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French vs Caroline Imperialist

Post by Niceas »

Charles is getting it from both sides. First the Ottomans, now the French. But he's on a roll!

Image

Charles won the initiative and Deployed the Tercios on the right, Artillery with Landesknects in support in the center and the horse on the left.

The French set up looked to have their right shoot up the Spanish horse while the Swiss and Landesknects were shot in by the French Artillery.

However, the Spanish Stradiots advanced, led by their own general, and charged past the Swiss and overran the guns, despite losing 2 of 6 stands to fire from the artillery and Swiss skirmishers. The Stradiots continued straight on and ended up in the French Camp, despite an attempt by the French mounted "archers" to intercept.

The French Swiss charged into two of the Tercios and began a protracted melee.

The French Landesknecht pike and shot advanced, the pike getting shot up by the Spanish artillery, becoming disrupted at one point and eventually getting broken trying to attack one of the Spanish tercios, when the general leading them was killed.

The French reiters and argolets advanced against the Spanish horse, the Spanish mounted arquebusiers eventually being driven off with loss, but the Spanish light lancer Celadas charged and broke both reiter units in melees, killing another French general, and pretty much sealing the victory for the Spanish.

The Spanish benefited from some great combat dice, and whacking two of the three French generals.

The French vow to bring more Swiss next time.

Caroline Imperialist:
4 TC's
2x Celadas each 4 stands, Horse, Hvy Armor, Avg, Light Lancer, Swordsman
2x mtd arquebusiers, each 4 stands, Light Horse, unarmored, avg, arquebus
1x Tercio, 16 stands, 8 MF unarmored superior arquebus, 8 HF armored superior pike
2x Tercios, 16 stands each, 8 MF unarmored avg arquebus, 8 HV armored avg pike
1x Hvy artillery 2 stands, Hvy artillery
1x Landesknechts, 8 stands, HF, armored avg pike, 2 stands HF, armored avg Hvy weapont
1x Stradiots, 6 stands, LH, unarmored avg light lance, swordsman

French:
1x Gendarmes 4 stands FA superior hvy lance swordsman
1x Archers 6 stands cavalier armored avg light lance swordsman
1x stradiots 4 stands LH, unarmored avg light lance swordsman
1x argolets 4 stands LH, armored, arquebus
2x reiters, each 4 stands armored, avg, shooty pistol, melee pistol
1x Landesknect pike 12 stands armored pike
2x Landesknecht shot, each 6 stands MF unarmored arquebus
1x Landesknecht skirmishers 6 stands LF, unarmored arquebus
1x Swiss pike, 8 stands armored superior pike, 2 stands armored superior heavy weapon
2x Swiss skirmishers, 6 stands unarmored avg arquebus
2x Medium artillery each 2 stands medium artillery
1x Light artillery of 2 stands.
Robert Sulentic

The only constant in the Universe is change. The wise adapt.
moncholee
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Re: French vs Caroline Imperialist

Post by moncholee »

Great report, thank you. I usually think that having GBGs of average quality is risky as you can loss 4 breaking points with a little bit of bad luck with the dice. What is your experience with those big average tercios?
Niceas
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Re: French vs Caroline Imperialist

Post by Niceas »

Well, luck is luck.

However, the advance is always led by a superior Tercio, and so far, I have not run into enough firepower to make an impression it or on the others. And here I was very lucky that the stradiots overran his artillery. He learned his lesson and I do not expect to ever see him employ unsupported guns again.

I would also not recommend using these things against someone who has musket instead of arquebus. Technology does matter.
Robert Sulentic

The only constant in the Universe is change. The wise adapt.
deadtorius
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Re: French vs Caroline Imperialist

Post by deadtorius »

Early Tercios are so big that you can shrug off most shooting hits, even from muskets, so not likely to see cohesion tests from shooting. Even in melee they can be great as they have so many bases it can be hard for your opponent to give you any modifiers for tests. One thing to watch for is their large frontage can be hit by 2 enemy battle groups which forces to you to split dice and adds up more hits in melee.
Other than that they are almost unstoppable, throw in a general and they should roll over most anything in their path.
Niceas
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Re: French vs Caroline Imperialist

Post by Niceas »

In a recent battle against Ottomans, superior Janissaries fought a superior Tercio to a standstill, and it wasn't clear who was going to break first from casualties. We did not find out, because the other Tercios and my Celadas had destroyed most of the Ottoman cavalry.

My heavily armored Celadas (light lance, swordsman) even as average, have beat everything they've come across so far.
Robert Sulentic

The only constant in the Universe is change. The wise adapt.
deadtorius
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Re: French vs Caroline Imperialist

Post by deadtorius »

Sounds like someone got hold of some lucky lead :wink:
I honestly believe some figures are cast from a cursed bar of metal and some from lucky bars. I have armies that particular units will always die or fail when I play them. Guess who stands way back and acts as the hope I don't have to commit them reserve :wink:

I think the only time my Tercio got destroyed was when 2 superior Swedes hit it at once, 2 turns in a row I took 7 hits. They actually held out until they auto broke. Last time out they hardly suffered any casualties and over ran everything in their path. Oh for more games like those....
moncholee
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Re: French vs Caroline Imperialist

Post by moncholee »

Early Tercios have a dangerous enemy: big keils. If they hit a tercio they have POA advantage against the shot sleeves and even against the pikes if they are not 4 deep. And they usually won´t suffer much against tercio fire because of their size. I think that the best place to deploy ETs are on the flanks of the infantry, and keils or arquebusiers or whatever other infantry you may have between the ETs.
Niceas
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Re: French vs Caroline Imperialist

Post by Niceas »

moncholee wrote:Early Tercios have a dangerous enemy: big keils. If they hit a tercio they have POA advantage against the shot sleeves and even against the pikes if they are not 4 deep. And they usually won´t suffer much against tercio fire because of their size. I think that the best place to deploy ETs are on the flanks of the infantry, and keils or arquebusiers or whatever other infantry you may have between the ETs.
Yes, my usual opponent is painting up more Swiss, after his experience above.
Robert Sulentic

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timmy1
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Re: French vs Caroline Imperialist

Post by timmy1 »

Swiss vs ET is very interesting IF THE SWISS GET INTO CONTACT. I have not tried it since GBG's were allowed.
stecal
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Re: French vs Caroline Imperialist

Post by stecal »

Now that I understand about artillery shooting over friendly LF I have a new cunning plan for delaying the tercios while adding LF arquebus shots to the artillery fire. Unfortunately this plan give Stradiots a historical role in chasing off the LF.

and NO, you cannot borrow my Pike blocks anymore. Being defeated by your own models is.... Oh wait, does that mean "My armies" win either way?
Clear the battlefield and let me see
All the profit from our victory.
Scrumpy
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Re: French vs Caroline Imperialist

Post by Scrumpy »

On the subject of artillery firing over LF, can they really shoot through the LF if the LF are stood toe to toe with an enemy bg ? Seems a bit dodgy for the LF to be that close to the target.
stecal
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Re: French vs Caroline Imperialist

Post by stecal »

Scrumpy wrote:On the subject of artillery firing over LF, can they really shoot through the LF if the LF are stood toe to toe with an enemy bg ? Seems a bit dodgy for the LF to be that close to the target.
Apparently they can be that close. I guess they are lying down or running in and out of range between shots. Remember that Early artillery had a very slow rate of fire compared to the Napoleonic peroid, so maybe 3- 5 minutes per artillery shot, probably longer. Main thing is that whether they add to the shooting ot not, the LF stop the tercios from marching, thus get shot more.
Clear the battlefield and let me see
All the profit from our victory.
deadtorius
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Re: French vs Caroline Imperialist

Post by deadtorius »

Keep in mind its both friendly and enemy LF that can be shot over by artillery, so your own guns can come to the aid of the Tercio and hammer at those annoying LF and add the Tercio's own shooting in too. That should drive those little buggers off :wink:
Niceas
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Re: French vs Caroline Imperialist

Post by Niceas »

Naah, that's what stradiots are for.
Robert Sulentic

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deadtorius
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Re: French vs Caroline Imperialist

Post by deadtorius »

Problem with the LH horse is you have to have room for them to evade through when something bigger comes along. Thats why I generally keep mine off to the flanks, along with the Dragoons. Early on Blathergut and I discovered the down side to having evaders break through line troops :oops:
Niceas
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Re: French vs Caroline Imperialist

Post by Niceas »

deadtorius wrote:Problem with the LH horse is you have to have room for them to evade through when something bigger comes along. Thats why I generally keep mine off to the flanks, along with the Dragoons. Early on Blathergut and I discovered the down side to having evaders break through line troops :oops:
This is an excellent point. I do leave lanes for the LH to bug out when the time comes. Like you, I have seen what happens when one does not. :shock:
Robert Sulentic

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deadtorius
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Re: French vs Caroline Imperialist

Post by deadtorius »

had one game where I left plenty of room out front for my Dragoons, wouldn't you know the one time you don't want to roll a 6 for evade guess what I rolled and they burst through my cavalry :roll:
timmy1
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Re: French vs Caroline Imperialist

Post by timmy1 »

D,

That suggests that you left some room but not plenty...

Good players always make the move that allows for the 6/1 combination.

(btw, I have made similar mistakes...)
deadtorius
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Re: French vs Caroline Imperialist

Post by deadtorius »

One of those, it looks like they should have enough room (without actually measuring it) and the desire to continue using Dragoons to harass enemy cavalry. Ended badly. Thats why I try to keep them on the flank with nothing behind them, or bug them out before they get too close to friendly lines, make a gap and scoot out.
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