Smart, especially since Joe Rock might have something to say on the topic before this game ends!Diplomaticus wrote:I'm starting a new thread to continue the above debate (getting a bit off-topic for this AAR).
Morris vs Joe Rock
Moderators: rkr1958, Happycat, Slitherine Core
Re: Morris vs Joe Rock
Re: Morris vs Joe Rock
Feb 19th 1942 severe winter
Uralsk come to the fourth turn of severe winter . We lost a INF & one panzer & one Minor Mech badly hurt . We launch a counterattack to finish a USSR INF to make a space for the new reinforcement . We reinforce 2 Mech to the Uralsk bloc . It seems difficult for the Red Army to destroy my Uralsk group before spring . We will hold until fair turn will come no matter how much we need to sacrify ! It is said the darkest time is the moment before sunrise . I believe we have passed the darkest time .
situation at the start of this turn
situation after Axis's move
Uralsk come to the fourth turn of severe winter . We lost a INF & one panzer & one Minor Mech badly hurt . We launch a counterattack to finish a USSR INF to make a space for the new reinforcement . We reinforce 2 Mech to the Uralsk bloc . It seems difficult for the Red Army to destroy my Uralsk group before spring . We will hold until fair turn will come no matter how much we need to sacrify ! It is said the darkest time is the moment before sunrise . I believe we have passed the darkest time .
situation at the start of this turn
situation after Axis's move
Re: Morris vs Joe Rock
Mar 9th 1942 severe winter
Uralsk compaign comes to the fifth severe winter turn . The wounded panzer dead but he did not lost his position sothat the reinforcement was able to take the position . Also the minor Mech badly hurt again ,but still hold by 1 step left . At present most of our Mech & Arm are recovering to blue . Maybe there will be another severe winter turn , but I have no worry about that . What I am thinking now is what will be the destination of Axis in 1942 .
situation at the start
situation after Axis's move
Uralsk compaign comes to the fifth severe winter turn . The wounded panzer dead but he did not lost his position sothat the reinforcement was able to take the position . Also the minor Mech badly hurt again ,but still hold by 1 step left . At present most of our Mech & Arm are recovering to blue . Maybe there will be another severe winter turn , but I have no worry about that . What I am thinking now is what will be the destination of Axis in 1942 .
situation at the start
situation after Axis's move
Re: Morris vs Joe Rock
Mar 29th 1942 severe winter
Urlask compaign continue ,Maybe it is the last severe winter turn , Russians gave up the effort of the severe winter offense & retreat back to prepare for their defence for Axis 1942 case blue .
We lost nothing but the one step hungary Mech . But all Germans have recovered for a fight . Only wait for the fair weather .
Situation at the start of this turn
Situation after Axis's move
Urlask compaign continue ,Maybe it is the last severe winter turn , Russians gave up the effort of the severe winter offense & retreat back to prepare for their defence for Axis 1942 case blue .
We lost nothing but the one step hungary Mech . But all Germans have recovered for a fight . Only wait for the fair weather .
Situation at the start of this turn
Situation after Axis's move
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Peter Stauffenberg
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Re: Morris vs Joe Rock
How is your oil level with so many panzers, mechs and air units?
Re: Morris vs Joe Rock
around 600 .Stauffenberg wrote:How is your oil level with so many panzers, mechs and air units?
Re: Morris vs Joe Rock
I wouldn't imagine oil would be an issue the captured oil fields and relatively little air activity else where
Re: Morris vs Joe Rock
Does it show that Germans can withstand Soviets in SW in supply 3 zone in clear terrain and no river? Or are the Soviets playing bad?
Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.
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Diplomaticus
- Sergeant First Class - Elite Panzer IIIL
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Re: Morris vs Joe Rock
JoeRock is one of our elite players, and I don't put myself in his league; but at the same time as I look at this AAR (Monday morning quarterback), I find myself questioning some of his choices, both early in the deployment of the Red Army in the face of Barbarossa and here during the winter offensive. I just don't see the profit in bashing your head against that brick wall at Uralsk. But then, a) Joe sees the big picture, while we get only screen shots and b) Joe is smarter than I am, so he probably made the best choice for the situation.Kragdob wrote:Does it show that Germans can withstand Soviets in SW in supply 3 zone in clear terrain and no river? Or are the Soviets playing bad?
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Peter Stauffenberg
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Re: Morris vs Joe Rock
We also have to remember that this game is a bit special. Barbarossa started as early as April 1941 and it's being played with pre-RC11 rules. So there are were no rail heads and truck supply to worry about when Morris stormed eastwards. He could rail units from everywhere on the map directly to cities captured the previous turn.
The new rail rules means that the Axis armor spearheads will have to work by themselves more before the corps units catch up.
I'm pretty certain that duplicating Morris'es performance in this game will be very hard. So Joe was handed a very tricky situation and is fighting an uphill battle. I guess in future games Morris will not get further than Stalingrad and Maikop in 1941.
The new rail rules means that the Axis armor spearheads will have to work by themselves more before the corps units catch up.
I'm pretty certain that duplicating Morris'es performance in this game will be very hard. So Joe was handed a very tricky situation and is fighting an uphill battle. I guess in future games Morris will not get further than Stalingrad and Maikop in 1941.
Re: Morris vs Joe Rock
the same rule applies to russians when they attack in '43-'45?Stauffenberg wrote:
The new rail rules means that the Axis armor spearheads will have to work by themselves more before the corps units catch up.
I'm pretty certain that duplicating Morris'es performance in this game will be very hard. So Joe was handed a very tricky situation and is fighting an uphill battle. I guess in future games Morris will not get further than Stalingrad and Maikop in 1941.
Re: Morris vs Joe Rock
Which is good, because 1941 should be decisive, not game-ending. IRL the Soviets "played" terribly and the Germans still didn't manage to take Moscow or Leningrad. Arguably, they could have been able to conquer Moscow/Leningrad if they concentrated their efforts on just one of these two cities, but it's doubtful that they would be able to take both and definitely not if they concentrated on Ukraine. Reaching Stalingrad in 1941 should be a feat in itself.
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Peter Stauffenberg
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Re: Morris vs Joe Rock
Yeskaigab73 wrote:the same rule applies to russians when they attack in '43-'45?Stauffenberg wrote:
The new rail rules means that the Axis armor spearheads will have to work by themselves more before the corps units catch up.
I'm pretty certain that duplicating Morris'es performance in this game will be very hard. So Joe was handed a very tricky situation and is fighting an uphill battle. I guess in future games Morris will not get further than Stalingrad and Maikop in 1941.
Re: Morris vs Joe Rock
Apr 18th 1942 fair weather
Uralsk compaign severe winter part is over . We hold sucessfully around Uralsk sothat we get a very good start point in 1942's offense . Last turn ,the red army retreated wisely , but we can not let them run away easily . We move forward not only in the south of Russia but also in the north to Moscow . It is too early to celebrate for the victory but it is time for germans to enjoy their happy hours after suffered the first severe winter in Russia .
Situation at the start of this turn
offense in the south
offense in the north
Uralsk compaign severe winter part is over . We hold sucessfully around Uralsk sothat we get a very good start point in 1942's offense . Last turn ,the red army retreated wisely , but we can not let them run away easily . We move forward not only in the south of Russia but also in the north to Moscow . It is too early to celebrate for the victory but it is time for germans to enjoy their happy hours after suffered the first severe winter in Russia .
Situation at the start of this turn
offense in the south
offense in the north
Re: Morris vs Joe Rock
May 8th 1942 fair
Russian began to retreat all over the map to make a defensive line around Moscow & Kuibychev . We move forward & start our attack . We arrive the suburb of Moscow & Kuibychev which were the political center in real 1942 . Also our INF sucessfully double cut off the link from Moscow to Caucasus .
In Med , our Italian sentinel sub sent out a warn message of a huge allies fleet & transport before his death . They are sailing to Italy ! We will give a medal to the Italian sub for his great job !
In west , UK began to bomb europe by their STR . but we can afford for that .
Situation at the start of this turn (north line)
Situation at the start of this turn (south line)
situation after Axis 's move
double cut off
Allies fleet to Italy
Russian began to retreat all over the map to make a defensive line around Moscow & Kuibychev . We move forward & start our attack . We arrive the suburb of Moscow & Kuibychev which were the political center in real 1942 . Also our INF sucessfully double cut off the link from Moscow to Caucasus .
In Med , our Italian sentinel sub sent out a warn message of a huge allies fleet & transport before his death . They are sailing to Italy ! We will give a medal to the Italian sub for his great job !
In west , UK began to bomb europe by their STR . but we can afford for that .
Situation at the start of this turn (north line)
Situation at the start of this turn (south line)
situation after Axis 's move
double cut off
Allies fleet to Italy
Re: Morris vs Joe Rock
May 28th 1942 fair
Russians continue their retreat to Omsk direction . We take Kuibychev,Saratov & Tula & 2nd Baku . I think Russia will meet a choice of Moscow & Omsk . Maybe they will have to quit one .
In med , Allies seems will launch an early Torch . We can do nothing to stop them . Poor Vichy France .
In the west , STR bomb continue . Paris & Lorrien bombed . Paris's production decrease to yellow 4 .
situation at the start of this turn ( north line)
situation at the start of this turn ( south line)
Med situation 1
Med situation 2
After Axis's move in Russia (north line)
After Axis's move in Russia ( south line)
Russians continue their retreat to Omsk direction . We take Kuibychev,Saratov & Tula & 2nd Baku . I think Russia will meet a choice of Moscow & Omsk . Maybe they will have to quit one .
In med , Allies seems will launch an early Torch . We can do nothing to stop them . Poor Vichy France .
In the west , STR bomb continue . Paris & Lorrien bombed . Paris's production decrease to yellow 4 .
situation at the start of this turn ( north line)
situation at the start of this turn ( south line)
Med situation 1
Med situation 2
After Axis's move in Russia (north line)
After Axis's move in Russia ( south line)
Re: Morris vs Joe Rock
As a new player I find that this has some great stuff in it, keep it coming!
On debates..... 41 supply issue and change of gauge is dependant on how many trains are captured. In RL Germans were more successful in capturing russian trains and rail cars in the south, than other areas. There was no change of gauge beyond Kharkov, so why is Morris deep penetration an issue?
Operation Sealion...in 1940 Churchill might have wanted to continue the war from Canada if he got out. But I seriously doubt that UK and the Common Wealth would have been that interested. They would have been like France, wanting to move on and restore an economy. The real question is what would Roosevelt done and would it have been too much too soon?
On debates..... 41 supply issue and change of gauge is dependant on how many trains are captured. In RL Germans were more successful in capturing russian trains and rail cars in the south, than other areas. There was no change of gauge beyond Kharkov, so why is Morris deep penetration an issue?
Operation Sealion...in 1940 Churchill might have wanted to continue the war from Canada if he got out. But I seriously doubt that UK and the Common Wealth would have been that interested. They would have been like France, wanting to move on and restore an economy. The real question is what would Roosevelt done and would it have been too much too soon?
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Peter Stauffenberg
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Re: Morris vs Joe Rock
Here are interesting links to the discussion about rail gauge conversion:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=2304
http://www.feldgrau.com/dreichsbahn.html
Both links indicate that the major obstacle for the Germans was NOT the actual conversion of the rail track, but that the Russian trains were bigger and could have a longer distance between stations where they refuel coal, water, make repairs etc. So Germany had to build such facilities long the captured tracks to support their own trains.
Here is a synopsis from one of the links:
According to the Reichsbahn official in charge when later interviewed by the Americans, the problem wasn't so much the changing of the gauge, which was accomplished in a simple way - pull up the spike, move the rail, respike it. The main problem was that Soviet locomotives were bigger than their Western counterparts and could carry more water, coal etc. This meant that they required fewer service stops. Apparently, the Germans had to build, on average, one full service station with water-towers, sidlings etc between every two Soviet ones in existence, for which no preparations existed.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=2304
http://www.feldgrau.com/dreichsbahn.html
Both links indicate that the major obstacle for the Germans was NOT the actual conversion of the rail track, but that the Russian trains were bigger and could have a longer distance between stations where they refuel coal, water, make repairs etc. So Germany had to build such facilities long the captured tracks to support their own trains.
Here is a synopsis from one of the links:
According to the Reichsbahn official in charge when later interviewed by the Americans, the problem wasn't so much the changing of the gauge, which was accomplished in a simple way - pull up the spike, move the rail, respike it. The main problem was that Soviet locomotives were bigger than their Western counterparts and could carry more water, coal etc. This meant that they required fewer service stops. Apparently, the Germans had to build, on average, one full service station with water-towers, sidlings etc between every two Soviet ones in existence, for which no preparations existed.
Re: Morris vs Joe Rock
The in-game strategic result is the same - you have to wait a bit before the railways become fully operational. If it was a tactical game, then there would be a big difference between building more stops/wagons and converting railways, but in a grand strategy game - not really. We have to keep the abstract nature of CEAW in mind - you don't even have to build "wagons" or "trucks" in-game, i.e. you do not spend any PP on them. It is reasonable to assume that the PPs you have are the "final" value, so most logistical costs are already covered and the only strategic factor remaining is time.
Re: Morris vs Joe Rock
June 17th 1942 fair weather
In Russia ,Joe just stay & supply ,so I ignore the start screen shot of Russia . We keep move forward , we take Penza , Ulyannovsk , & Ufa .We also make a detour to encircle Moscow & try to cut the link between Moscow & Omsk .
In Med , Allies launched Torch sucessfully . They take almost all NA in one turn with the help of the huge Allies Navy .Where will be the next ?
In west , Paris was bombed to red 1 . We have no FTR in the west , all of them are busy in the east .
Situation in the north Russia after Axis's move :
Situation in central east Russia (maybe north) after Axis Move :
Great Torch in NA
In Russia ,Joe just stay & supply ,so I ignore the start screen shot of Russia . We keep move forward , we take Penza , Ulyannovsk , & Ufa .We also make a detour to encircle Moscow & try to cut the link between Moscow & Omsk .
In Med , Allies launched Torch sucessfully . They take almost all NA in one turn with the help of the huge Allies Navy .Where will be the next ?
In west , Paris was bombed to red 1 . We have no FTR in the west , all of them are busy in the east .
Situation in the north Russia after Axis's move :
Situation in central east Russia (maybe north) after Axis Move :
Great Torch in NA