PBEM Issues

[Anfield]

Ok so ive played 5-6 PBEM games so far and every game has had the same outcome, whichever side has the bigger tanks wins.

Few things I dont enjoy about it PBEM,
Almost 90% of the units have no stars, which makes knocking out a bigger tank almost impossible.

No-more slots allowed. This one really gets me, as in games when it looks like a break out or chance to swing the battle comes up, oh guess what, sorry no more units allowed. Which if the units all had stars, then you work your better one into postition. But as history and PC shows you, to knock out bigger and better tanks, you are gonna need more units to hit them. Ive had the Prest. to spend but you cant buy more units. Its as if the game wants to keep each side at like 20 units etc?

Anyone else play more games maybe, and notice thats its not always the biggest tanks side winning?

And this no more units allowed, can we edit that somehow??

Love the game but PBEM seems predictable from the start and so far has been every game ive played.

[Kerensky]

There used to be a lot of discussion about uber units, but it's somewhat hard to find the threads under the new forum structure.

Suffice to say they are easy to use, but difficult to counter.

With good tactics (lots of infantry and heavy ATG weapons in rough terrain) and aggressive game play, it's possible to take down heavy armor.

This thread talks a little bit about it
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=29276

as does this
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=28892

[deducter]

I can promise you if you use exclusively heavy tanks against me without artillery/infantry support, I will defeat you. I do agree that many players tend towards just buying the best/heaviest armor like they do in single player. But that does not work in multiplayer against good opponents.

[Kerensky]

^^^^^^^^^^^

Yup, listen to him he knows what he is talking about.

All of the official multiplayer maps are designed to allow players to play around with and experiment with heavy armor (they are fun to use, this cannot be denied) but there is small enough prestige amounts and large enough maps that exclusive use of heavy armor is a fatal strategy to use against an experienced player.

[El_Condoro]

As the OP suggests, though, the slot restriction encourages that players use the best equipment. As a contrived example; 10 unit slots and 5000 prestige - you will buy 10 x 500 prestige units, rather than 10 x 200 prestige units (leaving 3000 in reserve). Not always, but you can see how the slot restriction encourages the big ticket items. Now if that were extended to 20 slots, 20 x 200 prestige units and 1000 in reserve looks a lot more interesting.

[deducter]

As the OP suggests, though, the slot restriction encourages that players use the best equipment. As a contrived example; 10 unit slots and 5000 prestige - you will buy 10 x 500 prestige units, rather than 10 x 200 prestige units (leaving 3000 in reserve). Not always, but you can see how the slot restriction encourages the big ticket items. Now if that were extended to 20 slots, 20 x 200 prestige units and 1000 in reserve looks a lot more interesting.

Most multiplayer maps have 20-30 core slots, and some of the really big ones have more (Urban Warfare). Prestige in the higher cases is ~4k to start, with a couple hundred a turn. Smaller maps like Dneiper has 1kish prestige to start and 100-200 a turn. There's never a situation where prestige is overabundant, unless you have already won the game and are just in the process of mopping up.

The only map where there seems like a bit too much prestige is Iron Cross, Red Star. Even then after about 10 turns in you will start to feel a bit pinched, unless you're doing very well.

[soldier]

It can be a bit tricky to beat the side with the stronger tanks, and if they have a balanced force and are using it well you could be in for a few headaches. You may have to try adopting a more defensive posture rather than confronting your opponent out in the open, and use your "smarts" to beat him. Strong tank destroyers or dug in troops and AT guns, (carefully placed) can frustrate and hold up his tanks (until their support arrives). You could also try to lure his forces out of formation with elastic defenses and fall back tactics and see if an opportunity arises to either isolate and attack a heavy or hit the supporting units. If you attempt the former you will need combined arms to even up the score before you attack (que tactical/strategic bombers and heavy artillery), then go in with your own tanks and AT weapons. If you make the kill, you will notice a significant loss in you opponents local and immediate offensive capacity (provided there are no more heavy surprises ). Thats your chance to take back lost ground and put the pressure back on him for a while but don't forget to keep your own tanks defended and supported when the counter comes.

Its all easier said than done and you will need a bit of luck but in the end there are ways to neutralize the advantage or at least break even with your more heavily armed and armoured fat friends.

[Anfield]

Thanks for the replies, all interesting to read. And as my OP said, only played the PBEM few times, so didnt want to be to fast to judge it. Maybe its just the few games ive played tended to lean that way.

[Lionheart]

A wonderful Game, wonderful also for Friends of the Classicals Panzer General, nice Graphics and so on, but...
I often lost my joy for playing PBEM, because the battle results very often are pure luck, only stupid and crazy, and not realistic and has nothing to do with strategic.
Why the programmers cannot fix this? I know several players of Panzer Corps, they also lost her joy for this Game because the fantasy battle results.I think, this was in all
SSI-Games of the Panzer General / Pacific General Series much better and more realistic.
If the programmers will fix this "problem", Panzer Corps would be for me one of the greatest Games ever.

[Lionheart]

i have problems with the counter of the turns.I have several matches at the same time, all in paired mode, and suddenly in one single-match one turn is (e.g.) 23 and the other single-match has turn 18.In an other match the turns have a difference about 8 turns.I´m sure, i did not play 8 turns only one single match, and after 8 turns the other, so i think, the counter of the turns is not counting well.But this gives a problem for the end-result, who is the winner? Who was faster?

[PGtomli]

I must agree with Lionheart.
Here's an example:

I have a 10 strength Panzer IVG about to attack a 13 strength Conscript (Russian). The odds are 6-0 in my favor according to crosshair. The Consript is on a clear terrain hex and has no artillery support. Neither unit is supressed. That's a no brainer, just attack and watch the conscript blow up in a cloud of fire!

But ... the conscript kills 3 tanks and loses 2 of its own.

These kinds of weird results are not very uncommon. How is this possible? Can someone please explain this and make sense of it?
(Does the Conscript have superior training and equipment that can harm a heavy tank in a clear hex?)

I think that the crosshair odds should have a more predictable and realistic outcome (with less extreme variance).
Please FIX this problem with a patch. Results should follow a Normal distribution formula with maybe some caps on damage/losses depending on equipment.

[deducter]

For every example of such a bad combat result working against you, there is an example of a good combat result working for you. But no one ever remembers the good luck unless they actively think about it.

For instance, I attacked a 8 strength StuG IIIF/8 with a KV-1C and did 7 points of damage, much better than expected. I then attacked a 2-strength Panzer IVG with 2 full strength T-34s and did no damage. The luck balances out.

Perhaps implementing a chess mode option could work in MP.

I have never lost a MP match to bad luck, only to better skilled players.

[PGtomli]

The chess mode option would work, or a slider where you could configure the random generator. I think I prefer a bit more realistic outcomes.

[PGtomli]

Btw deducter, I'll see you on the battlefield tomorrow (unfortunately I don't have the time tonight)