Some questions about the Medieval Welsh in SOA

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stockwellpete
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Some questions about the Medieval Welsh in SOA

Post by stockwellpete »

And before anyone says that I should really post all this in the TT forum - I have already done so (or some of it anyway) but I always feel like a bit of an intruder when I go over there. :oops:

Anyway, some questions I have (some I just don't know the answer to, others I have a bit of an inkling about)

i) would it be appropriate to include some mounted archers in the list, probably as LH? I ask this because the Welsh certainly used ponies (not great big warhorses) to move about the countryside very quickly and avoid the main English forces. It is not clear to me whether they were able to fire from pony-back or whether they would dismount, fire, and then re-mount and move off again. Remember, we are talking about guerilla warfare here rather than set-piece battles. This also raises the question of what sort of bows they used when they were raiding, ambushing or harassing English columns. It would seem fairly impossible to fire a longbow from the back of a pony so maybe they used shorter bows on these occasions? Or perhaps it is more likely that they had longbows but dismounted to fire. We also have accounts of the battle of Myndd Hyddgen 1401 which suggest that a Welsh raiding party, including Glyndwr, was surprised in its camp (presumably with their hill ponies) - but they were able to break out of the trap and eventually defeat the English by being more mobile than their opponents, so presumably they were mounted for a least part of this engagement?

ii) the DAG list includes 2x mounted knight units. Who are these meant to represent? Certainly not the French as French Allies are included as a separate option. Probably not the Anglo-Welsh gentry (Glyndwr came from this social layer) - so are they meant to be the Welsh marcher lords who defected to the revolt such as Sir Edmund Mortimer after his capture at Pilleth in 1402? If so, probably two units is one unit too many. The other issue here is that these mounted knights are not given lances. In fact, mounted English knights are not given lances in any of the DAG lists whereas everyone else - Welsh, Irish, even the dear old Scottish knights have them! I am a bit puzzled by this, I must say.

iii) Who are the Welsh militia billmen? Do they come from the Welsh towns perhaps?

iv) As the revolt gained momentum, there is evidence that many Welshmen deserted the English army in France and returned home. Is this represented by the "experienced bowmen" in the list?

v) finally, concerning the French contingent (the "Allies" in the DAG list) that landed at Milford Haven in 1405 - we know that they comprised of about 3,000 men. Of these, around 800 were knights and 600 were crossbowmen and the other 1,600 are sometimes described as "lightly-armed" troops. The knights and crossbowmen are included in the DAG list, but not these other chaps. It is not absolutely clear to me who they were. Maybe some were assistants to the knights (grooms etc) but perhaps some were Bretons and other lightly armed infantry. Perhaps they could be represented in the DAG as a mixture of MF swordsmen and LF javelinmen? The French contingent actually represented about 25% of the combined Franco-Welsh force that invaded England in 1405 so there would be room to increase the French contingent in the DAG. Maybe something like this would represent the French quite well . . .

French Knights 2-3 (not a maximum of 4 units)
Crossbowmen 1-2 ( not a maximum of 3 units)
Infantry 2-3
Skirmishers 1-2

Thanks in advance for any help with this. :wink:
stockwellpete
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Re: Some questions about the Medieval Welsh in SOA

Post by stockwellpete »

Excellent "Battlefield Britain" programme about Glyndwr's Revolt here . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj7k91AQ3UI
FedeM
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Re: Some questions about the Medieval Welsh in SOA

Post by FedeM »

"In fact, mounted English knights are not given lances in any of the DAG lists whereas everyone else - Welsh, Irish, even the dear old Scottish knights have them! I am a bit puzzled by this, I must say."

I find that weird too. Only the continental has 3 of them with lances.
stockwellpete
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Re: Some questions about the Medieval Welsh in SOA

Post by stockwellpete »

More discussion about the Welsh here . . .

viewtopic.php?f=73&t=32212
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