DLC 43 Prohkorovka

[charonjr]

Manstein - imported core

Starting with 21.8k prestige after repairs.

Infantry light core again including a Brückenpionier for the SE position. NW has mostly infantry + artillery while the SW consists largely of Panzer.

Very strong Soviet air presence on turn 1 and I wasted 1 FW and 2 MEs in the SE. In the SE the Soviet units guarding the 2 bridges were destroyed and what I first thought to be 1 tank and 2 infantry turned out to be a whole lot of Soviet units.

It looks like I missed some more tanks around the SE corner, my Brückenpioniere got shot up pretty badly by tanks arriving from a NW direction.

Reached the fortifications to the SW of Belenikino by turn 3.

It took me till turn 5 to gain something resembling air supperiority (till the next wave hits) with just one Il-4 left at 7STR. Kartashyovka has fallen and the fortifications around Belenikino have been overrun, most of the tnaks in the SE area have been dealt with as well, but I can already see 2 new tanks around the center of the map, expecting more of them there.

After the next airwave I had to send a Fw and a ME to repairs, the last hex of Belenikino was conquered at turn 7 and the tanks to the east of it are engaged. In the NW the fortifications have been dealt with and my Paras are close to Andreevka now. The units from the SE linked up with the forces from the SW to the south of Maloyablonovo.

Overall pretty good progress so far (end of turn 7), but my aircraft are surely getting hurt here and while the Tigers are only getting hit for 1STR (if they get hit at all) those repairs will get expensive again.



Time for a break...

[deducter]

I posted this in my own thread, but I felt compelled to post here too, such is my admiration for this scenario.

Prohkorovka

Updated to v2 Beta. I have 45 core slots to use, 5 of which are temporary, and 38 units, including 3 SE. Most of my units are exhausted in battle and are in no condition to advance. I have lost nearly all of my experience on my units. DV is clearly out of the question, but can MV be won? The Germans did win a marginal victory historically, crushing a Soviet tank army for few losses, but they could not advance after the battle. We shall see.

Breaking my own rules, as the game has proved sufficiently challenging. Purchased 3 infantry, a Fw 190F, a recon car, and a StuG IIIG. 214 prestige left.

I cannot describe in words the INSANITY AND EPICNESS OF THIS SCENARIO. No number of words can possibly do this justice. For the first time ever on a non-Manstein difficulty I lost. The truth is I must’ve lost somewhere around 20 units by turn 14. I might be able to scrap together a MV, but I decided just to endscn 2 and go test the remaining 3 scenarios. I felt I engaged perhaps 1/3 of the number of units on the map. There were so many left that it truly boggles the mind.

Yes, I didn’t have an optimized core or barely any heroes, yes, I was very low on prestige, but I destroyed DLCS 1939-1942 without trying under similar conditions, often not even trying very hard. Sure I might lose a unit here or there, and sometimes in the past I worried about making DV on time, but never have I actually felt defeated by the AI.

The number of AI units on this map is enormous, and their quality excellent. The T-34 tanks just won’t stop coming. The Red Air Force has so many planes that I could not possibly swat them out of the sky. The Il-2s in particular are devastating, as they take forever to shoot down.

This scenario is far, far harder than anything that has come before it. The difficulty is amazing. And it’s not even 1944 yet.

I suspect a player with pure Tigers/Panthers still won’t have a hard time here. However, anyone using a historic core composition will have a challenging time.

In order to win here, it is imperative that the player’s core is optimized to some extent. I think at least 6 veteran fighters and 2-3 88 flaks are needed to maintain parity in the air, possibly more. Also the player needs 2-3k prestige saved up to even attempt to win MV on this. I just ran out of prestige after losing too many units.

Admittedly I did not play perfectly by any means, or really up to my usual standards. That however is no excuse for my defeat. Many German generals like Manstein never did give enough credit to the Soviets, who improved very much by this time. Well, I didn’t give enough credit to the Soviets either, and unlike Manstein, I can own up to it.

This scenario is the ultimate panzer battle. I mean, I thought the developers couldn’t possible top themselves with Stalingrad. This scenario is the pinnacle of design. DLC43 East is thus far amazing and much more challenging. Surely this time Kerensky will be a victim of his own success! Do not nerf this scenario!!!

[monkspider]

Prohkorovka
starting prestige 2100
After cheat to add 4000 prestige 6100
prestige after overstrengthing/upgrades 12
Ending prestige 600
Marginal victory 22/22
Losses: too many to count

This is it, the big one, the high water mark. The legendary tank battle at Prohkorvka is perhaps equal parts myth and reality, but there was an epic battle there and this scenario does it justice. This is the most insane scenario since storming Stalingrad. This is what Kursk is all about, massive amounts of high quality units on both sides thrown into the meat grinder. I think this battlefield had to be absolutely littered with burning tanks by the end.

First of all, my strategy was to split my army into three, and then hit Prohkorovka from the northwest and southeast in a grand pincer movement but as the great von Moltke once said, no plan survives contact with the enemy. My southeast force was immediately hit with a ridiculous counterattack that badly bloodied it. My southwest force was supposed to capture the center city and then the hill 238 but it got hit with a counterattack that left it crippled. My northwest force, which included my elite SS Tigers then had to divert to capture the hill instead of helping take Prohkorvka.

Thus, only my southeast force was still able to advance to Prohkovka but the city's defenses didn't look too daunting, and based on the number of tank armies I had already destroeyd, I considered it impossible that there could be any other units still in the area, so imagine my shock when it gets hit with the hugest counterattack yet with 15 strength T-34s and KVs out of nowhere! Mein Gott! I had to pull the force back just to avoid it being entirely overrun. In the end, I had no choice but to settle for a marginal victory.

There was one historic milestone here, this was the first time that I had to ever cede outright air superemacy to the Soviets. I can't even count the amount of Soviet aircraft that I destroyed but despite this my fighters eventually got beat up enough that I had to pull them back to their airfields and I didn't have the prestige to repair them. At this point, the Soviets had free rein.

My losses in this battle were absolutely appalling, I lost at least three artillery, three infantry, and one or two panzers. One of my artillery was a highly experienced field artillery that I had since Poland and another was a four star Panzer III. Even the units that survived were badly managed.

Despite this, I hope that you leave the scenario more or less as is, because it is a masterpiece and one of the most memorable scenarios ever. Bravo Herr Kerensky!

[Zhivago]

Believe it or not, I actually thought the scenario could have been a bit tougher. My main complaint was that when I took Prohkorovka with three or four turns left, I noticed that there was still a large armor reserve to the east of the city that was just sitting there of Soviet 5th Guards. I thought they should have been prompted to throw everything they had at me as I closed in on the city. I was surprised that they just sat there.

[deducter]

Believe it or not, I actually thought the scenario could have been a bit tougher. My main complaint was that when I took Prohkorovka with three or four turns left, I noticed that there was still a large armor reserve to the east of the city that was just sitting there of Soviet 5th Guards. I thought they should have been prompted to throw everything they had at me as I closed in on the city. I was surprised that they just sat there.

I agree that the 5th guards army should activate sooner, and maybe a VH placed beyond Prohkorovka.

However Zhivago, you should have an easy time if you are using all elite overstrength Tigers/Panthers. In fact I would be shocked if you couldn't win DV with that sort of core. I used almost all 1-2 star non-overstrengthed units, of which 4 were Tigers/Panthers. I didn't even have enough to fill out the 45 deployment slots.

[Zhivago]

Believe it or not, I actually thought the scenario could have been a bit tougher. My main complaint was that when I took Prohkorovka with three or four turns left, I noticed that there was still a large armor reserve to the east of the city that was just sitting there of Soviet 5th Guards. I thought they should have been prompted to throw everything they had at me as I closed in on the city. I was surprised that they just sat there.

I agree that the 5th guards army should activate sooner, and maybe a VH placed beyond Prohkorovka.

However Zhivago, you should have an easy time if you are using all elite overstrength Tigers/Panthers. In fact I would be shocked if you couldn't win DV with that sort of core. I used almost all 1-2 star non-overstrengthed units, of which 4 were Tigers/Panthers. I didn't even have enough to fill out the 45 deployment slots.

I'm using a mixture of Tigers and Panthers, plus a few Panzer IVG's and some captured KV1B and KVIC's. Because of the prestige crunch, very few of my units are overstrength at this time. I also have one or two open slots. It's a good scenario, but I was just surprised the 5th guards armor just sat there while i swarmed around Prohkorovka.

[charonjr]

I think it was around turn 10 when the 5th Guards hit me (crossed the Psel towards the east with my Pioniere to get into the back of some units guarding the Beresovka bridge) lost my first core unit since a very long time right then, a 2nd unit which still sat right on the river retreated with 1STR. Didnt finish this one due to beta 2 having come along.

Maybe having units east of the Psel is a trigger?

Well, I will see how the rematch will look like later in the evening

[charonjr]

Met the first units of the 5th Guards at turn 12 - maybe taking Berezovka or getting close to the easternmost airfield triggered them, at least they did attack at both locations.



Those 3 are 5th Guards T34s, cant see very much due to cloudy weather. Retreated the units in the SE since one of them provided the 5 kills shown here