Split-move rear charge bug

[gazxtrix]

rear charges -At present you can charge a unit in the rear, if you start in front of the unit. Not as per TT which i assume is the guiding principle.

Has this been deliberately done or is it a bug? Also possible to change a normal rear charge into a demoralising (cohesion loss) rear charge by splitting the move, is this a bug or feature.

[deeter]

"Also possible to change a normal rear charge into a demoralising (cohesion loss) rear charge by splitting the move, is this a bug or feature."

Huh? Please elaborate.

Deeter

[TheGrayMouser]

If you charge an enemy in the rear but the charger starts in front of a plane extending out from the defenders flanks ( there is actually a usefull illustration of this in the manual) then you do NOT get the automatic cohesion loss for impacting the rear. However, you do still get the ++ POA . This is likly a compromise from the TT game.

As deeter said, you'll have to elaborate more on the other stuff

[hidde]

It's when you have the situation you describe,TGM.
Instead of doing the whole move in one go you first move the hex or hexes that take you to a position where the "real" rear charge is applied.
Then you move the remaing hex(es). Bingo, it's a rear charge!
This is foolprof with units not prone to anarchy. With anarchy in play you risk an attack that not give you any rear bonus...

[TheGrayMouser]

That is not a bug , but a design decision.

Also, truly the only troops that could pull this off much are DRILLED cavalry any ways.... If you keep a solid line and protect the flanks then it wont happen to much

[gazxtrix]

yup Hidde has got it right.

If its meant to be a feature why do you have to split the move. ie move 1 hex to get behind the line and then charge.

And i would submit that this would be the only set of rules where you start in front of a unit and can claim a rear charge. If it is a feature can we have it documented, I only recently discovered this feature when what I thought was a relativley safe unit was smashed in one turn. ie rear charged demoralised bad result bad cohesion test, - routed.

I would submit that most people do not know of this feature.

[FedeM]

Did not know it.... Now I do LOL.

Tks!

[TheGrayMouser]

yup Hidde has got it right.

If its meant to be a feature why do you have to split the move. ie move 1 hex to get behind the line and then charge.

And i would submit that this would be the only set of rules where you start in front of a unit and can claim a rear charge. If it is a feature can we have it documented, I only recently discovered this feature when what I thought was a relativley safe unit was smashed in one turn. ie rear charged demoralised bad result bad cohesion test, - routed.

I would submit that most people do not know of this feature.

Wait a minute, are you saying you start in front of an enemy BG , move behind it , charge the rear and cause a automatic cohesion drop?? Have never experianced that...

BTY Im not sure what you mean by "splitting the move" the game tell you what hexes you can reach with the green hexes highlight.... I must be misunderstanding what you mean??

How about a screenshot of this in action?

[gazxtrix]

by splitting the move , all i mean is instead of moving in 1 touch to the target , instead move 1 hex then complete the move. I'm surprised if you haven't seen it done. Maybe you havent left yourself open to it.

I'll try and set it up.

[stockwellpete]

Scoundrels!! No wonder I keep losing!

[hidde]

One word...replays!
Give you the chance to pick up a thing or two from time to time

[TheGrayMouser]

by splitting the move , all i mean is instead of moving in 1 touch to the target , instead move 1 hex then complete the move. I'm surprised if you haven't seen it done. Maybe you havent left yourself open to it.

I'll try and set it up.

Hmm, well I have done this and no doudt its happened to me but I stand by that only Drilled cavalry are likly able to pull this off , and only in certain circumstances and they will NOT cause the automatic cohesion drop ( unless its a new bug just introduced) I am still not convinced I fully get what you mean so will await some action photos

[hidde]

I am still not convinced I fully get what you mean

I think you don't
Can't give you any pictures but consider the fact that to be able to attack the targeted hex must be in your forward arc.
Drilled or undrilled doesn't matter when it's time to attack.
What matters is how your BG (and the target) are facing.
And yes, it WILL cause an automatic cohesion drop.

I don't mind this "feature". It gives light spears added value and the desicion to try or not try
with troops that can go anarchy can be painfully difficult at times.

[TheGrayMouser]

Oh my, I ll have to play around in the editor to see what you mean... However I do think drilled DOES matter in order mover fwrd, change facing and then continue to move to make contact. If they truly are causing cohesion drops for rear hits when starting in FRont of an enemy BG then its a new bug

[hidde]

A


B


Note that the odds shown are the same,but...


A--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- B



Can't show it but I assure you the Hoplites in B were first disrupted and then fragmented as a result of the actual impact calculation.

[FedeM]

Houston, we have a bug.

[gazxtrix]

thanks hidde, that is it exactly.

[TheGrayMouser]

Hidde, I just ran this multipe times using the editor , same set up as you , I used cavalry undrilled and drilled(because there are bug(s) in the game, notibly the evade bug where drilled makes a differnce) , and I even started the cavaly at the same y axis as the target and not once did the helpless heavy foot ever suffer an automatic cohesion loss prior to the combat dice rolled.. not once...

However the game does say/display "rear" when contact is made (maybe that is the source of confusion?) and you do get a ++ poa and this is what the rules say should happen....
I also watched the game log while doing these tests and not once did any unit lose a cohesion level prior to and in addition to the combat ++. No doudt it is more common to drop 2 cohesion levels from one impact when you get a ++ POA , more hits, the higher % chance of 2 more hits given than received etc , which all give bigger penalties and a greater chance to "lose big" and drop two levels...

Even with your screens I still have no idea what you and Gaztrix are talking about by "splitting the move" though, doh!

[hidde]

Well, this time they get routed and that can clearly not happen in one go.
It's very odd that this aint happen to you. All this screenies were captured on the first try.
And "splitting" is perhaps a bad choice of words. Lets say moved in sequence, or in stages. Take a look at pic B in my earlier post.
The green line show you I moved three hexes, took a pause and admired the view, and then charged

[gazxtrix]

whats the drilled/undrilled evade bug?