DLC 43 Belgorod

[deducter]

Won MV barely on turn 17/17. Used all the tricks I know to defend the bridgeheads while advancing on Belgorod. Very good Soviet unit disposition overall, I especially like the Red Air Force now, it is certainly very potent on Manstein. Nice AI counterattacks, it is best to leave units to guard bridgeheads or else the AI will defeat you. It will shoot through fighter escorts to kill stukas, but that is probably a nature of the difficulty rather than AI improvement.

Again this scenario rewarded 800 prestige for MV. That is simply not enough for me to carry on and give useful feedback. I need at least 2-3k prestige awarded scenario playing with a fresh core on Manstein. That's fine, I shouldn't be able to win DV without an optimized core, and I'm satisfied with that. But the issue now becomes I probably won't have enough prestige to do much except squeak out a MV here and there, perhaps with some losses. From a gameplay perspective, I finally got what I wished for, and I may revisit this in the future. However, for testing purposes, this is not particularly informative, as reporting MV, losses on Manstein is what should be expected.


My kill/loss ratio is much better than history (although if you take step losses account, perhaps it's more like historical ratios). I believe the Germans, still at this point, generally inflicted at least 3-4 times as many casualties on the Soviets, and often more. I cannot really replace my losses, just like history too...

Balancing prestige is particularly hard. I actually think this quantity of prestige is fine as long as a player imports his core. All those heroes/prior experience will really help. On the one hand, you have to consider the starting core strength. On the other hand, you have to consider players who somehow have 40k prestige saved up by the start of DLC 43. It's probably best to err on the side of caution though, and limit prestige in general. I would not mind a small increase, but I would not like a massive buff to anything except the starting prestige.

I'm sure with a Manstein-optimized core I can win DV on these maps, they are challenging but not too hard. I like the general increase in difficulty though.

In conclusion: Do not change the difficulty! I am pleased that with the DLC 43 core on Manstein I cannot win this campaign, just like in history. If anyone wants a a historical flavor of what it was like in 1943, this is perfect. For now though, it's easy mode time for me.

[monkspider]

Belograd
DV on turn 13/17
General, imported core
Starting prestige 1691
After upgrades 100
Ending prestige 1055


My prestige situation has become increasingly critical, but I feel like it is representative of the German situation at this point. I wasn't able to overstrength all of my units all the way, I had to pick and choose which units I was going to overstrength, which made things interesting. I never had a chance to get around to replacing the Wehrmacht Infantry that I lost in the last battle. I have really felt like I should have an extra fighter lately but it hasn't heen in the budget. The lack of prestige does at least prevent the player from upgrading everything to Tigers, unless they have an ungodly amount saved up. I still only have my two Tiger Is.

Another excellent scenario, this one felt a bit easier than Kharkov but the Soviet counterattacks across the Donets still have the potential to throw you off balance. Even though I didn't outright lose any units, I feel like my losses in terms of steps might well have been higher than Kharkov. My main goal was to try to avoid losses wherever possible to preserve prestige. By the end of the battle my prestige had recovered somewhat at least. I really have no suggestions on this one, it felt just right to me, assuming that a shortage of prestige is by design.

[Longasc]

Belogorod (or is it Belogorod? I have seen both spellings, I just noticed the scenario calls itself "Belogorod" when saving)
4126 Start Prestige (Default 43 Core, FM)
-> 1179 after upgrades & repairs, disbanded a Sherman for a FW190A because 3 aux AA units telegraph me that's something smelly in the air!
Upgraded a Me110 to Me410. They are strong enough to be ignored by Russian fighters and have good stats for a versatile role without need for an escort.

General impressions:
- The Marder is pretty good when backed up or to give the coup de grace, as are the 233 Recons who pack a punch and high mobility
- EASIER than Kharkov 43. Speculation: The core is now more or less like I want it. It's way more diverse than in the "Panzer IV" era of previous DLCs, the IIIM and IIIN are valuable and strong units (for now).
- Strong Russian Airforce. They almost ripped my by this time fatally fragile Stukas apart despite an escorting Me109.
The "odd Russian fighter" turned out to be a Hurricane
- This seems to be about defending the river crossings
- My StuGs in the upper left corner (OK, North West! Don't be like that! ) ran out of gas but spotted no nasty Russian armor surprise to my surprise. They are now almost out of gas and anxious to present the Führer the gas bill and look a lot like tiny rhinoceroses.
- The situation is relaxed, as I am back to talking stupid things
- Prestige could become a problem depending on the strength of the enemy counter-attack that I apparently did not yet suffer.

WORK IN PROGRESS. Detailed report when finished.

BUG Can't move Recon unit from hex 18,1 to 19,1 and thus not attack an artillery piece in the city.
Update: After a tank in the hex 19,2 got killed my Recon unit can suddenly move to 19,1. This is not the normal "ZOC" stuff! This hex is called "rough field".

In the end: DV 14/17, 406 Prestige.
Enemy counter-attacks were rather weak, a Russian tank reserve in the center of the map I detected in the final turns apparently doesn't move at all, even if you bomb them.
Counter-attacks were repelled by Panzer IIIM guarding the rivers.

Verdict: Nice, easier than Kharkov43 (good). No idea how much Prestige I will get for the next scenario but I fear deducter is right and it will be getting tight, even on FM, don't even want to think about Manstein.

There is a city guarded by Paras behind the final objective, but I had already won at this point, didn't conquer it.

[Mountaineer]

Very difficult with the attacks on the flank again. Based on lessons from Kharkov, I left units behind to defend the bridges. Supply became a problem because of continuous fighting for those units. I also got to Belgorad late and barely had time to cross the river to take the last objective. Overall, I like the challenge but I carried very little prestige forward to use in the next scenario. Very few units are overstrength, I guess I feel the effect of Allied bombing on the Fatherland and the partisan interdiction of supply lines.

[charonjr]

Manstein - imported core

Prestige went down from 33.2k to 30.3k after repairs, bought another FW 190A bringing it down to 29.7k.

I will guard the river crossings again this time and race my Panzer at the center and the western flank towards the north.

Prudyanka and the airfield fall at turn 2, again the Tigers backed up by Wurfrahmen and Stukas slice through to opposition like the proverbial hot knife through butter and the Soviet fighters (the Hurricane a bit less so) are no match for the FW 190s. Zhuravlevka and Lukyantsi fall as well.

At turn 3 Oktyabrskiy is reached and the airfield occupied, all bridges up to Ziborovka are guarded.

At turn 4 Oktyabrskiy falls and the tank defending Shchetinovka retreats with 2HP left.

Turn 5: Shchetinovka and Bessonovka are occupied. Armored spearheads reach the airfield of Pushkamoye and the bridge at Razumnoye.

Turn 6: It looks like the natives are getting restless, lots of troops movements behind the river, especially around Murom. The airfield at Bessonovka is occupied without any resistance.

Turn 7: Pushkamoye is occupied (no defenders) and the first units reach Belgorod. With the traffic jam at the bridges and my units having reached Belgorod I will try to force my way across the Donets in the south next turn and start to send some Stukas and fighters south.

Turn 8: With the support of 6 pieces of artillery and 2 fighters/ 3 Stukas Vovchansk is taken and the first bridgehead on the eastern side of the Donets established. The last remaining defender of Belgorod is down to 3HP.

Turn 9: Bridgehead expanded while the Soviets try to cross the river in force to the west of Murom, but take heavy losses and fail to cross.

Turn 10: Yastrebovo is reached and the 2 Katyushas are destroyed.

Turn 11: Reached Burluk and met some armor to the north of it. Soviet forces to the west of Murom are largely destroyed. The defenders around Yastrebovo are destroyed as well and my armored spearhead reached Churaevo.

Turn 12: Looks like I triggered some reserves (or might be respawn), but lots of new BT-5s around Murom, and around Ziborovka, too. The paras in Churaevo are destroyed by combined arms and the city is occupied as is Burluk.

Turn 13: Murom and the airfield are occupied and most of the defenders in the area destroyed. Shebekino is reached and undefended. And it looks like I got a T34/41 from Churaevo which I use the scout the NE corner of the map (empty). Found a couple of Soviet aux units to the SW of Shebekino.

Turn 14: Ziborovka is occupied and only the currently undefended Valuyki and Yasrebovo remain.

Turn 15: First rain turn, but by now this no longer matters.

DV at 17/17, 30.5k prestige, with the extra prestige after the scenario and the needed repairs this will most likely be a prestige loss again.

Overall too easy with the imported core. IMO more agressive couterattacks would be good, but I am afraid the AI is not smart enough to shift forces to places were the bridges arent guarded yet. The number of forces looked ok. As I already said I liked 1 fighter appearing pretty constantly (stopped around turn 14 I think) since I had to guard my Stukas.

I am not sure how much of my likely prestige loss is due to having lots of expensive units, but I think a bit more prestige is needed here, unless you want to simulate the German forces getting more and more beaten up the longer the game progresses. And while this is certainly historic I am not sure if it is fun for most players.

edit: As suspected, my prestige went down to 28.6k (elite replacements) despite selling the captured T34, so effectively -1k.

[BriteLite]

DLC43, Mission 2 Belgorod, Lt Difficulty, Prestige 2418, Default Core
DV Turn 16-17, End Prestige 1365
No units lost
Captured, 1xT34-41

I followed the advice in the mission briefing leaving about 1/4 of my units to defend the crossings along the lower Donets (Panzers and artillery). The Luftwaffe’s primary ground support mission was to support the defense of the crossings and attack targets of opportunity when not needed at the river.

Steadily advanced to Belgorod encountering consistent medium intensity opposition. The AI attempted to cross the river with single units at the 2 lower bridges on almost every turn. On turn 12 I placed 5 panzer units 3-4 hexes back from the river at the Vovchans’k (21, 22) bridge. The AI crossed 5 tank units which were eliminated quickly. Also on turn 12 I took the last Belgorod hex crossing there and began to advance over the Donets at the 2 lower crossings. From then until games end opposition was stiff but the flow had changed totally to my favor. Interesting to note new Russian air units appeared on almost every turn requiring Stukas to be escorted to avert losses.

Not as challenging as Kharkov but still fun. Partially this is explained by a predominance of good weather and ground conditions with only one rain turn in the mission.

No errors encountered.

[billmv44]

General, imported 1942 DLC Beta core. Prestige about 2400 at end.

This scenario seemed slightly easier than Kharkov. Not easy and certainly challenging given the prestige limitations. I didn't encounter any defects or other issues. As noted by others, the red air force is getting better. DV on turn 17/17 but I could have done it on 13 but I went prestige farming once I crossed the river. I was able to re-strength all units to 10/10, but I wasn't able to over-strength all of them. No new Tigers either, still have 2. I agree that a bit more prestige for each of the first two scenarios would be okay. I think the large size of the maps is limiting our ability to concentrate our forces as much. This is resulting in greater losses in having 1-2 units attacking an enemy unit instead of 3 or more. That may be driving some of the prestige crunch (at least it is for me).

[El_Condoro]

15/17 DV. General with standard core.
Seemed fairly easy if approached in a methodical way. Took a gamble and attacked across the Donets early - silly mistake that resulted in the loss of an 88! Otherwise holding the bridges was fairly easy and a great way for my units to gain easy experience points as the AI blindly attacks.
About 2300 pp before refitting for the next scenario, Orel.

[margeorg]

IMHO the AI attacks over the bridges are a little bit too easy. Defending them is like a lunch picknic on a sunny sunday morning. I think the AI lost around 15 units to these defenses ...

OK, I´m playing on colonel level with an imported core, but I´m just a Joe Average player ...