POOL / Motorized infantry combat

[ivanov]

Over the last few days we had some constructive discussion regarding the motorized infantry combat model. Now I would propose a quick pool regarding the issue. It is not about pressurizing the developers to implement a quick change, but about getting a comprehensive feedback form the community on the issue.

Happy voting

[ivanov]

I have voted yes

[Szabtom]

I haven't seen the discussion you are referring to but I voted No. Simple reason. Currently, there is a trade-off in the game: you lose the ability to fight effectively (both on attack and on defense) in exchange for fast movement. Getting auto-demounted in defense would mean giving up only the attack effficiency, and keeping defense intact. I don't think such change would bring any value to the game.

[ivanov]

I haven't seen the discussion you are referring to but I voted No.

There you go:

http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=121&t=31859

[BloodCat]

Getting auto-demounted in defense would mean giving up only the attack effficiency, and keeping defense intact.

AFAIK, the proposition is to dismount infantry after getting the first attack -- so that attack will use all the negative modifiers, but later attacks (during same turn) won't. And infantry won't dismount if it takes artillery fire or suffers from air attack.

[ivanov]

AFAIK, the proposition is to dismount infantry after getting the first attack -- so that attack will use all the negative modifiers, but later attacks (during same turn) won't. And infantry won't dismount if it takes artillery fire or suffers from air attack.

Well, actually my proposal is that the infantry should automatically dismount when attacked for the first time, but in order to reflect the dismounting process, it should receive some initiative penalties during the first combat. Of course that would be the case of the infantry units, not artillery.

Let me stress, than the proposal is not about the infantry being dismounted after the movement in order to attack. It's would be just in case of the defence during the enemy's turn.

[BloodCat]

Well, actually my proposal is that the infantry should automatically dismount when attacked for the first time, but in order to reflect the dismounting process, it should receive some initiative penalties during the first combat.

I don't like this idea. First attack against infantry "on wheels" should be devastating -- as it is now. But then it should dismount to make finishing the damaged unit off more difficult, 'cause now it looks like several ambushes in a row, or like infantry is so stupid it can't think of dismounting even when taking repeated hits.

[Mark50]

I think the concept was poorly presented and I`m not sure people know what they`re voting for. I too was under the impression that the idea is for:

1. infantry to take high losses if attacked while mounted and that
2. the infantry would automatically dismount after the first attack so that it will not take a penalty against future attacks(even though it will still be at a disadvantage given that it has probably lost alot of strength from the initial attack).

Imo just an initiative loss does not represent a sufficient penalty against a first attack if the infantry has been caught in transports.

[Anfield]

I voted no. I just got done with the 39-42 DLC and can only think of maybe 3 times my infantry got hit in their HT, and those times were near the end of battle rushing them about to get a DV (air/artillery attacks another matter). Its the risk you take, and if its happening to you alot that you think it needs to be changed, than id say its more a problem with your tactic than the game.

FYI ive had least ten infantry units in the DLC since 40, 4 towed guns, 3 88's. More than half my ground forces travel by truck/HT and ive never had it be an issue, or effect how combat effect they are. If you work your forward untis right, your trucked units following shouldnt be getting hit hardly at all from other ground units.

[ivanov]

I don't like this idea. First attack against infantry "on wheels" should be devastating -- as it is now. But then it should dismount to make finishing the damaged unit off more difficult, 'cause now it looks like several ambushes in a row, or like infantry is so stupid it can't think of dismounting even when taking repeated hits.

In my opinion the initiative penalty would be sufficient to reflect the disadvantage of the dismounting infantry, given the operational scale of the game and the fact that the combat reflects the whole set of events during the period of at least few hours ( not just the initial suprise of the infantry ).

[ivanov]

I think the concept was poorly presented and I`m not sure people know what they`re voting for.

A link for those who didn't follow the previous discussion:

viewtopic.php?f=121&t=31859

[charonjr]

I voted no, because I tend to think that the single attacks could very well be just 1 coordinated attack. But if the infantry retreats I would very much like them to disembark.

[El_Condoro]

I have not voted due to the ambiguity of the suggestion. If it was as Mark50 has written above, I would vote Yes but just an initiative penalty on the first attack, I would vote No.

[Vaughn]

I will not cast a vote on this poll. I'm not entirely sure I understand the question. Here is my own view. Mounted units should not automatically dismount during the first attack. However, they should dismount immediately after the initial attack has been concluded. Thus be ready for any subsequent attacks during that same round.

I do not know if that is a yes or a no vote.

[ivanov]

I have not voted due to the ambiguity of the suggestion. If it was as Mark50 has written above, I would vote Yes but just an initiative penalty on the first attack, I would vote No.

It seems that the majority would go for introducing some dismounting mechanism, but the opinions are divided if that should occur before or after the first attack. I personally belive that it should happen before it, because the attack on the mounted infantry usually wipes out more than half of the unit's strenght. I think that such a casualty rate in case of the regimental size unit is too high. I understand that due to the initial suprise, the first echelon would suffer heavy casualties, but the lose of 50% or more of the whole unit strenght is just too much IMO.

[Aloo]

Well, actually my proposal is that the infantry should automatically dismount when attacked for the first time, but in order to reflect the dismounting process, it should receive some initiative penalties during the first combat. Of course that would be the case of the infantry units, not artillery.

With the above information I voted no.
I think the poll should have a 3rd option - dismount after the first attack since I and many posters would like to choose that.

[boredatwork]

Well, actually my proposal is that the infantry should automatically dismount when attacked for the first time, but in order to reflect the dismounting process, it should receive some initiative penalties during the first combat. Of course that would be the case of the infantry units, not artillery.

With the above information I voted no.
I think the poll should have a 3rd option - dismount after the first attack since I and many posters would like to choose that.

I would also choose this.

[soldier]

I need clarification as to what "motorized infantry" actually is before i vote. I thought any troop division in a transport was motorized but when i mentioned the assault in the Ardennes in the other thread (where a panther division destroyed a column of US infantry in trucks) someone said they probably weren't a motorized division ?

[dragos]

Voted no. Although I'd vote for dismounting after a first attack occurs with the existing penalty.

[xy]

I voted yes. I am not sure if the infantry should dismount before or after the first attack but I think this issue needs to be looked at by the game's developers.