a bit of sculldugary in charging

papsterdino · Post by **papsterdino** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:18 pm

L1L1L1M1M1M1M1
L1L1L1M1M1M1M1

C2C2C2A1A1A1A2A2A2
C2C2C2A1A1A1A2A2A2

L1 are LF with bow facing south
M1 are mf i/2 hw bow facing south
c2 are cretan lf with bow facing north A1 and A2 are also lf with bow facing north
all are as shown against the tabls edge, and around 2 mu apart, m1 declares a charge against C1A1AND A2 as all are within reach with the single wheel allowed . all lf evade to their own rear m1 charges then exactly straight ahead so he can move L1 straight forward without it dropping bases back. the rational being C2 was within charge declaration range so able to declare charge against though no inent of wheeling minimul distance to hit if not moved any opinions please.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:23 pm

Direction declared must be followed unless ALL targetts evade out of charge path. So this is not allowed.

papsterdino · Post by **papsterdino** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:31 pm

thats what i said, can you indicate page in rule phil

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:30 pm

The FAQ explains it

http://piombo.treemme.org/files/faq_ver501.pdf

and Its P53 about a single wheel and charge direction in general

So if the charger declared in a particular direction then said that he wasn't going in that direction I'd just put my troops back as they were obviously not in the charge path so did not have to evade.

bbotus · Post by **bbotus** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:33 am

So if the charger declared in a particular direction then said that he wasn't going in that direction I'd just put my troops back as they were obviously not in the charge path so did not have to evade.

Boy, is Phil being nice to you.

Per page 67, 1st bullet, top of page, if the troops you are charging decide to evade then you must indicate the direction of charge. Then A1 and A2 would evade. Now, if the indicated direction of charge will contact C2, it can evade. After all 3 BGs evade, are any of the them still in the path of the charging MF. If yes, then you must charge in the direction you indicated. If no, only then per FAQ 4vii can you change the direction of charge to try to contact at least 1 of the evaders.

You don't have a choice once you declare.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:23 pm

bbotus wrote:
So if the charger declared in a particular direction then said that he wasn't going in that direction I'd just put my troops back as they were obviously not in the charge path so did not have to evade.
Boy, is Phil being nice to you.

I'll have a word with myself.

zoltan · Post by **zoltan** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:21 pm

bbotus wrote:Per page 67, 1st bullet, top of page, if the troops you are charging decide to evade then you must indicate the direction of charge. Then A1 and A2 would evade. Now, if the indicated direction of charge will contact C2, it can evade. After all 3 BGs evade, are any of the them still in the path of the charging MF. If yes, then you must charge in the direction you indicated. If no, only then per FAQ 4vii can you change the direction of charge to try to contact at least 1 of the evaders.

You don't have a choice once you declare.

So the charge path is the area circumscribed by two infinite parrallel lines extending the two side edges of the charging BG forward. Kind of like an extended restricted area that is much more than 2MU. As long as some part of one of the evading BGs remains within this 'beaten zone', the charger must continue to charge on this declared angle. If none of the evaders remain within the beaten zone, the charger may chose a new charge angle which enables it to follow one of the evaders. Under this interpretation 'the charger's path' thus potentially extends much further than the charger's maximun VMD move distance.

bbotus · Post by **bbotus** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:14 pm

Under this interpretation 'the charger's path' thus potentially extends much further than the charger's maximun VMD move distance.

Hmmm! Interesting thought. So if one evader is still in the path but further than the charger can move while another evader evades out of the path but the charger could wheel and hit it, then what? I think I'd allow the wheel to hit the evader that the charger could reach. Other comments?

But that still doesn't allow a charger to wheel out of any path that would potentially contact one of the evaders just to hit a BG that was not the object of the charge.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:19 pm

Nor to declare a direction then ignore it.

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:44 am

I have always considered the charge path is the area that would be traversed by the charging BG to contact, plus up to 2 additional MUs for files stepping forward. should the targets evade I always assume the charge path includes the full move of the BG, plus 2 MU for potential high VMD, then, should the BG make contact, up to an additional 2 MU for files stepping forward. So the charge path is not infinite, but may be longer or shorter depending on circumstances. For example, a BG charging an evade capable target 2 MU away, with no other targets initially has only a 2 MU charge path. If the target BG evades, the charge path would be extended up to the limit of the BG's normal move. If no targets are in the path of the charge to the limit of the charge path, it takes a VMD, potentially adding 1 or 2 MUs to the charge path.

I remember a debate about the need for a charger needing to roll a VMD if all of its (initial) targets evade regardless of whether other targets would be revealed by the evade. But my position is that since the charger does not execute its charge until all evaders have moved, it's charge path extends up to its full move distance. Only if no targets would be contacted by moving the full distance would a VMD be required.

bbotus · Post by **bbotus** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:58 am

But my position is that since the charger does not execute its charge until all evaders have moved, it's charge path extends up to its full move distance. Only if no targets would be contacted by moving the full distance would a VMD be required.

But do you concur that if all evaders evade out of the charge path, then the charger may wheel towards one or more targets of the charge and may have incidental contact with a non-charged BG; but it may not wheel in another direction towards a BG that was not a target of the charge?

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:33 am

If all targets within the defined final charge path have evaded out of the charge path, then the charger may wheel to follow any one evader. It does not get to effectively declare a new charge path to contact other BGs. The adjusted path must be one that will allow it to follow the evader. The rules do not make clear if this path can be so adjusted that the Charger can contact other enemy BGs before reaching the evader.

I can see that an argument can be made that an evader that evades so that another BG would be interposed between the evader and the charger would allow the charger to wheel such that the interposed BG would be hit.

bbotus · Post by **bbotus** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:40 am

The rules do not make clear if this path can be so adjusted that the Charger can contact other enemy BGs before reaching the evader.

Actually, FAQ 4 Vii makes it clear that as long as the charger wheels towards an evading BG, it may 'in some circumstances' contact another enemy BG. But I think we are reading it the same way.